OEM ATI video cards [SOLVED - by Rene]

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Rgyver2
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OEM ATI video cards [SOLVED - by Rene]

Post by Rgyver2 »

Knowing that ATI video cards work well in Linux, i was going to buy a few cheap cards for some test builds.
My question is, do the ATI cards branded by Dell and HP work just as well in Linux? Or should i stick with brands like MSI, Asus, and Saphire?
I know from personal experience that Dell and HP modified hardware tends to cause issues or needs special drives. But didn't know if this holds true when using their video cards with Linux. Ex, if i bought a "Dell AMD Radeon HD 6450" vs an "MSI Radeon HD 6450". Should i expect them to be equivalent as far as drive compatibility? or should i expect the MSI to be more driver friendly in Linux?
Thanks
Last edited by Rgyver2 on Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Colson P
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by Colson P »

This website provides some interesting info:
https://www.dell.com/support/article/e ... e?lang=en

Notably,
Dell Drivers & Downloads website allows you to download hardware drivers, firmware and other software downloads.
Or, you can visit Intel, NVIDIA or AMD's website to download the latest video card driver package for the video card installed in your Dell PC.
Dell video cards are fully compatible with the regular drivers for the same models, so you can install the regular Catalyst drivers for your card, as you would to other versions of your card. There would be no difference between a Dell, XFX, MSI, or Gigabyte video card.

Additional note: buying a Radeon HD 6450 or something similar would not be worth your money. This card would not be cable of doing anything on the internet or running most applications. Here's a comparison to show you:
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/comp ... vs88vs4012
I would suggest trying to find a better used GPU, such as on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. Try to look for one similar to (or better than) a Vega 8 iGPU.
www.videocardbenchmark.net/ is a great resource for this.
Linux in a nutshell: xkcd https://xkcd.com/619/

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rene
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by rene »

Rgyver2 wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:17 pm
Ex, if i bought a "Dell AMD Radeon HD 6450" vs an "MSI Radeon HD 6450". Should i expect them to be equivalent as far as drive compatibility?
Yes, fully. And I'd in fact recommend the 6450 as one of the most hassle-free cards you could get, assuming you have no specific gaming desires. Radeon HD 5000 and HD 6000 cards (in fact, anything pre the so-called GCN architecture) are on Linux, any current variant thereof, supported through the standard supplied open-source "radeon" driver. Catalyst, a previously AMD-supplied closed-source driver, doesn't exist anymore for anything post Ubuntu 14.04 / Mint 17.x.

In fact, due to Catalyst not existing anymore AMD basically supplied any and all information and code to the open-source "radeon" driver when they stopped supplying a driver themselves, and that means that it performs quite nicely; with somewhat of an exception for dual-GPU systems really as good as Catalyst ever did. Together with the "standard supplied" bit this makes for that "most hassle-free".

Also note that an HD 6450 is very much enough for all uses, both on Linux on and Windows, except of course for heavy gaming and the like; it's not a gaming card. Due to the current pandemic Folding@home is a bit of a focus for many and I'll in that sense note the 6450's lack of support for double-precision floating-point math through OpenCL (meaning it's not generally useful for F@h anymore) but certainly it's a fine choice for basic Linux use. No, no difference between brands.
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MartyMint
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by MartyMint »

It's a relatively "old" card. I would certainly temper my expectations.
Rgyver2
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by Rgyver2 »

Colson P wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:18 pm
This website provides some interesting info:
https://www.dell.com/support/article/e ... e?lang=en

Notably,
Dell Drivers & Downloads website allows you to download hardware drivers, firmware and other software downloads.
Or, you can visit Intel, NVIDIA or AMD's website to download the latest video card driver package for the video card installed in your Dell PC.
Dell video cards are fully compatible with the regular drivers for the same models, so you can install the regular Catalyst drivers for your card, as you would to other versions of your card. There would be no difference between a Dell, XFX, MSI, or Gigabyte video card.

Additional note: buying a Radeon HD 6450 or something similar would not be worth your money. This card would not be cable of doing anything on the internet or running most applications. Here's a comparison to show you:
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/comp ... vs88vs4012
I would suggest trying to find a better used GPU, such as on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. Try to look for one similar to (or better than) a Vega 8 iGPU.
www.videocardbenchmark.net/ is a great resource for this.
- Dell
This had NOT been my experience with DELL. But i am speaking from a windows drive point of view, and a little Linux.
case in point - pick up a few DELL E1505 laptops many years back that originally had Win Vista - worst garbage OS ever. Dell never made win 7 drivers for this model. one had intel 945M (dont remember exact model number) onboard video. Another had an ati x1300 plug in card. It was near impossible to to get any win7 or even linux drivers to work properly in regards to the video card. Xubuntu ran video (file on the HDD) choppy regardless of proprietary driver or other linux driver. but video performance was better than anything i did in win7. i tried direct from intel and ATi drives which were worse than what win7 (32 and 64) loaded during install. I even tried running dell vista drivers in compatibility mode - which failed as well. searched for months until windows released compatible drivers for older hardware. Then win7 64 and 32 ran perfectly.
On many occasions, if Dell did not make drives for the OS you want to install, then you faced an uphill battle.
this experience (and a few others) made me very hesitant from buying older Dell equipment.

- HD 6450 internet
i would surely believe an HD 6450 would handle internet task just fine. What internet pages are you going to that require a $100+ video card like you mentioned a Vega?
About 2 years ago i fixed up a failing computer (at no cost because they could not afford a new one). the onboard video was failing so i added a Saphire X1600 dual dvi video card - very old PCIe card but still an upgrade to what was onboard. It did just fine. Tested youtube videos and even netflix. All they were going to do was just surf the internet. If i though they would need it or the x1600 didnt work, i would have gave them a Gforce 210 card.

Thanks for the info that DELL (and other OEM) cards work well in Linux.

I used to pick up Nvidia 210 1GD3 cards on ebay for $15 to $20. and they always exceeded then needs of people that just surf the internet and having an HDMI connection available is nice. Obviously not a gamer card unless you are talking very old game. Being that i am working more with Linux (avoiding 10 like the plague), i wanted to find some ATI video cards (linux friendly) equivalent to the 210 or better but still around $20.
when i give someone a computer at little or no cost, i try to put the bulk of my expense into important parts. Like an 80+ 5yr warranty PWS (CX430 - under $30 with rebate) instead of a video card that cost more than the entire build.
Last edited by Rgyver2 on Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rgyver2
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by Rgyver2 »

Thanks to everyone that helped me with this. I have been playing with Linux for a while, but now full on since i refuse win10. I knew how to work with drivers quite well in windows. But i have a lot of learning to do in regards to drives in Linux. I have been using Mint since it kind of handle the drivers for me so far.
Now i know i can pick up some inexpensive ati cards and they will work in Linux weather they are oem or not.

Also if anyone know a good tutorial on installing drivers in Linux please share. Example - i had mint 19.2 on a chromebook i modified to erase chrome and loaded Linux. After a kernel update, my touchpad quite working. i had absolutely no idea where to start. I was thinking i needed to find the hardware ID then search for a driver for it. I ended up using timeshift to fix it. then a later kernel worked fine. All if fine with it currently.

Does any one know of a tutorial that gives a step by step instruction on how to fix driver issues? like what info is first needed and how to retrieve it. Then where to go to find the drive you need. and finally how to install it. I am assuming you would have to install a need repository. but how to put it all together is what i have yet to learn.

Thanks
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Colson P
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by Colson P »

Normally I would use this website as instructions:
https://github.com/lutris/lutris/wiki/How-to:-DXVK
but your Radeon HD graphics card won't support Vulkan, so this won't work for you.
I would suggest trying to install the Catalyst driver from AMD's website, if the drivers are available for your model.
Also, be VERY CAREFUL when installing Radeon drivers - I've bricked MANY Linux operating systems myself installing AMD drivers. I'd suggest you try and find online instructions on how to install the drivers for your specific card.
Linux in a nutshell: xkcd https://xkcd.com/619/

Always remember to marked your posts as [SOLVED] when your problem has been resolved.
That way, others can use your post to solve their own problems.
rene
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by rene »

Colson P wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:47 am
I would suggest trying to install the Catalyst driver from AMD's website, if the drivers are available for your model.
Again, Catalyst does not exist any more. It was the closed-source AMD driver that was available for Ubuntu 14.04 / Mint 17.x last, i.e., 6 years ago now. For pre-GCN cards such as HD 6000 series, potentially GCN1 and GCN2 cards, you use the standard-supplied, open-source "radeon" driver. It works well, and no other choice exists. You install nothing: it is installed OOTB; you are good to go directly after installation of Mint.

Being supplied OOTB is moreover the standard situation for drivers on Linux; with slight exceptions for e.g. the binary Nvidia driver, some wireless drivers, Linux drivers are supplied alongside and as part of the Linux kernel.
Rgyver2
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Re: OEM ATI video cards

Post by Rgyver2 »

Colson P wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:47 am
Normally I would use this website as instructions:
https://github.com/lutris/lutris/wiki/How-to:-DXVK
but your Radeon HD graphics card won't support Vulkan, so this won't work for you.
I would suggest trying to install the Catalyst driver from AMD's website, if the drivers are available for your model.
Also, be VERY CAREFUL when installing Radeon drivers - I've bricked MANY Linux operating systems myself installing AMD drivers. I'd suggest you try and find online instructions on how to install the drivers for your specific card.
Why do you say that if the video card doesn't support Vulkan, that it will not work? I had to look up what Vulkan is. How does that relate to surfing the internet?
I dont understand. I have know Linux like xubuntu to work well on have a dozen really old laptops i fixed up for people. The video performance was so week in them that it would not handle Mint cinn gui well. Thus why i loaded xubuntu and one with lubuntu. but to just surf the internet, they work just fine. Are you saying that because they don't support Vulkan, they will no longer work to render internet pages in the near future?

i was looking to find some inexpensive video cards that are more linux friendly than Nvidia for some test builds. like AM2 ddr2 MBs. that i want to use for data transfer/data recovery and tinkering. and if i decide to give one away to someone in need, that a low end video card would take some stress off of the ram and cpu. If i have no intension of gaming or any other graphical intensive need, then why should i be worried about not having Vulkcan support? Please explain? Thank you.

also i dont yet have a Radeon HD card - looking to buy. And my main everyday computer just has an Nvidia GT430 which has served me well in Win7 and now in Mint 19.3
rene
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Re: OEM ATI video cards [SOLVED - by Rene]

Post by rene »

Please note that the link Colson provided hasn't much do with anything; is about a Vulcan-based DirectX translation-layer for DirectX under Wine, i.e., very specifically about running Windows-games on Linux. As with the Catalyst stuff you will want to ignore it; there's no relevance to what you asked.
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