Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

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Bvz
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Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

Hello,

I am not sure if this is the correct forum to be posting this. Please let me know if I should move this questions.

I am eager to switch to Linux Mint (from Manjaro Gnome). I am getting tired of the UI decisions that Gnome is making, and I can't keep up with a rolling release cycle. I want something a little more stable, and that has a better UI than Gnome.

So I decided to give Mint 19.3 a try. The problem is that my CPU runs up to 17 degrees C hotter under Mint than Manjaro (This applies to both Mint Cinnamon as well as Mint XFCE. It also applies to Ubuntu 20.04 incidentally).

The only thing I can think of is that the newer Kernel is completely out of sorts with my system (Dell XPS 15 9560 i7), or... I don't know. Watching top seems to indicate similar CPU loads, but the output from the sensors command show much lower temps under my Manjaro installation than either Mint Cinnamon, Mint XFCE, or Ubuntu 20.04. I can also hear the fans running at much elevated speeds under these distros (confirmed by sensors).

It was such an issue that I actually spent the day installing different distros and testing them all in the same manner.

I used the same methodology on all of the different systems. All temps are in Celsius. Temperatures were recorded using the "sensors" command. Top was running all the time in a separate terminal window. Note that the Manjaro install I have is the one I have been using for the past two years (Manjaro kernel: 4.14.168-1-MANJARO). I don't know how it differs from a brand new, vanilla install. I am downloading the latest Manjaro Gnome and will be testing that shortly. Also note that I did not record the values for Ubuntu 20.04 but they were in line with what I have been seeing here.

I am not trying to start a war between distros. I VERY MUCH want to switch to Mint. I VERY MUCH want to leave Manjaro - which has been excellent but I cannot keep pace with the rolling releases. What I AM trying to figure out is if there is an explanation for this and if I can figure out how to get the same, low temps under Mint (or, if needs be, under Ubuntu).


Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon Edition

Code: Select all

Idle (top running) 5 min after boot			40																						
Moving mouse rapidly for 1 minute 			50																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			39																						
Open Firefox on mint website				45																						
Idle (Firefox and top) after 5 minutes			40																						
Firefox youtube rodrigo y gabriella			47																						
closing firefox						49																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			43																						
Moving mouse rapidly for 1 minute 			52																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			43																						
Normal usage*						55

Linux Mint 19.3 XFCE

Code: Select all

Idle (top running) 5 min after boot			39																						
Moving mouse rapidly for 1 minute 			52																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			37																						
Open Firefox on mint website				44																						
Idle (Firefox and top) after 5 minutes			40																						
Firefox youtube rodrigo y gabriella			48																						
closing firefox						47																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			43																						
Moving mouse rapidly for 1 minute 			51																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			43																						
Normal usage*						52

Manjaro

Code: Select all

Idle (top running) 5 min after boot			36																						
Moving mouse 1 minute 					37																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			37																						
Open Firefox on mint website				39																						
Idle (Firefox and top) after 5 minutes			39																						
Firefox youtube rodrigo y gabriella			40																						
closing firefox						40																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			38																						
Moving mouse rapidly for 1 minute 			37																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			37																						
Normal usage*						38
Note how my Manjaro system seems to be stable at around 38-40 degrees regardless of what I do. Mint seems to jump all over the place, and is especially bad when I move my mouse rapidly from one side of the screen to the other (passing over the terminal window).

As mentioned, my Manjaro system is the one I have been using for the past two years. I currently have 808 out of date packages on it (one of the reasons I want to switch to a distro with a slower release schedule). It is also dual booting with Windows 10, whereas all of the tests I did above were on installs that took over the whole disk (I never boot into Windows anymore and want to reclaim the disk space). My drive is also partitioned into several partitions (Windows 10, data (ntfs), /, home, opt). I don't know if that might affect the tests.



*Normal usage is more or less the same across the different distros, but was not controlled as identically. It is generally 3 or 4 Firefox windows, downloading an iso, burning a USB drive, google sheets open, top, and sensors command in two separate terminal windows. Fairly light stuff compared to my usual workload.



edit: Adding some more data.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vanilla Manjaro Gnome install

Code: Select all

Idle (top running) 5 min after boot			35																						
Moving mouse 1 minute 					36																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			36																						
Open Firefox on mint website				39																						
Idle (Firefox and top) after 5 minutes			37																						
Firefox youtube rodrigo y gabriella			38
closing firefox						37																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			35																						
Moving mouse rapidly for 1 minute 			35																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			35																						
Normal usage*						39

Vanilla Manjaro Cinnamon install

Code: Select all

Idle (top running) 5 min after boot			32																						
Moving mouse 1 minute 					33																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			34																						
Open Firefox on mint website				35																						
Idle (Firefox and top) after 5 minutes			36																						
Firefox youtube rodrigo y gabriella			37
closing firefox						37																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			34																						
Moving mouse rapidly for 1 minute 			35																						
Idle (top running) 5 minutes later			34																						
Normal usage*						38
So it appears that the culprit is NOT Cinnamon (as it appears to run cooler than Gnome). The common thread, so far, has been an Ubuntu or Ubuntu derived distro.
Last edited by Bvz on Sun May 17, 2020 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by MrEen »

Hi Bvz.

This isn't something I'm well versed on, but I'd suspect graphics as the cause. Look at the graphics drivers of the various OSen and see if replicating the driver in use has any effect.

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

MrEan,

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try to compare the different driver versions.

I just finished testing a vanilla Manjaro Gnome install as well as a Manjaro Cinammon install. Both show very low temperatures vs. the Ubuntu derived distros. Always in the mid to high 30's compared to the over 50's I was seeing on those distros.

But because I'd like to be on a more mainstream release, I will try Mint again. (I just tried LDME 4, but I cannot get it to boot in live mode at all, even after editing the boot options to include nomodeset and remove the quiet splash).

I will update here as I have more info or questions.

Thanks again.

(p.s. for my own use I will post my current graphics drivers here - since my machine is being wiped clean several times a day now I don't have a good place to store this info :) )

Manjaro Cinnamon Drivers

Code: Select all

[bvz@xps15-9560 ~]$ inxi -G
Graphics:  Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 630 driver: i915 v: kernel 
           Device-2: NVIDIA GP107M [GeForce GTX 1050 Mobile] driver: nouveau v: kernel 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: intel,nouveau unloaded: modesetting 
           resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz, 1920x1200~60Hz, 3440x1440~50Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 630 (KBL GT2) v: 4.6 Mesa 20.0.6 
and the kernel is:

Code: Select all

[bvz@xps15-9560 ~]$ uname -r
5.6.11-1-MANJARO

DAMIEN1307
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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

What CPU and how much ram are you running ?...DAMIEN

EDIT...Also just had a thought...If not already installed, you can install "thermald" desktop and laptop, as well as TLP if your running a laptop as tlp not only helps with battery life, but also helps out with heatup problems as well and works well alongside thermald...the difference may be small but it can help..."your milegae may vary" (YMMV)...just copy and paste the codes below to install...If they are already there, it will tell you so, If not, they will install themselves for you...nothing to configure, they just work...DAMIEN

Code: Select all

sudo apt install thermald

Code: Select all

sudo apt install tlp
ORDO AB CHAO

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

I am running an 8th gen Intel core i7 with 16GB RAM. The computer is a Dell XPS 15 9560 model.

I'll give those commands a try. Currently I have Ubuntu 20.04 installed (testing it without any proprietary drivers). The drivers are as follows:

Code: Select all

bvz@XPS-15-9560:~$ inxi -G
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 630 driver: i915 v: kernel 
  Device-2: NVIDIA GP107M [GeForce GTX 1050 Mobile] driver: nouveau 
  v: kernel 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: nouveau 
  resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz, 3440x1440~50Hz, 1920x1200~60Hz 
  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 630 (KBL GT2) v: 4.6 Mesa 20.0.4 
The only difference I am seeing is in the x11 server line.

Ubuntu says:

Code: Select all

Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: nouveau 
Manjaro says:

Code: Select all

Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.8 driver: intel,nouveau unloaded: modesetting
Outside of that, they are identical. I don't know how to get Ubuntu to use the intel driver (to match Manjaro). I do know that the system is running hotter than under Manjaro (typing this has the system at 45 degrees C).

If I can get Ubuntu to drop its temps (I'll also try those commands you suggested) then I will go on to Mint. If I can't, I will have to put an end to this experiment and go back to Manjaro. I'll post again when I know something.

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

Im sorry, I thought you were asking for Linux Mint help, Not Ubuntu...DAMIEN
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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:25 am
Im sorry, I thought you were asking for Linux Mint help, Not Ubuntu...DAMIEN
I was.

I first tried installing 19.3 and had the excessive temperatures. I then tried 19.3 XFCE with the same results. I then tried Ubuntu 20.04 with the same results as well. Then I tried Manjaro Gnome and had what I consider to be decent temperatures. I then tried Manjaro Cinnamon with the same decent temperatures (and which showed me that the issue wasn’t the DE).

But my preference is to run Mint for a number of reasons. So I tried to install LMDE (thinking that any Ubuntu derivative appears to run hot in my system). But LMDE refused to even boot into a live environment (even with me trying variations on nomodeset and nouveau drivers).

So I abandoned that after several hours and went back to installing 19.3. But this time it refused to boot into a live environment as well. It would either crash with a stack trace or simply complain about hdaudio and hang. Following an hour or more messing about with that I tried Ubuntu 20.04 again in an effort to see if i I could at least solve the running hot issue. (And at least I could get Ubuntu to actually install). I figured that if I could get Ubuntu to cool down then I would put in the extra effort to get Mint to actually boot on my system. But if I couldn’t get Ubuntu to run at the lower temps then in all likelihood I would not be able to get Mint to be able to do so either - and all the extra hours I would put into getting Mint to actually boot and install would be wasted.

That was where I was when I was posting my messages above.

Unfortunately I couldn’t get Ubuntu to run cool. I couldn’t get LDME to boot at all. And, for reasons I can’t figure out, I couldn’t get Mint 19.3 to boot at all either (even though I managed it Saturday).

I have to work again now that it is Monday and I have to have a functioning machine (this is my primary work system and it can’t be down during the week and it can’t be running hot). So, after about 20+ solid hours trying to get it working this weekend (installing and testing and trying to debug multiple installations) I had to give up and revert back to Manjaro.

I like Manjaro. It boots every time. It runs cool. I’m even using the cinnamon desktop now.

But eventually I’d really like to move over to Mint. The rolling release cycle of Manjaro is too exhausting for me (especially for a production machine). Maybe I’ll try again with Mint 20. But I’m afraid that it either won’t boot at all, or that it will also run hot just like Ubuntu 20.04. I’m willing to give it another go though.

But the reason I was asking about Ubuntu was that that was where I just happened to be in my weekend marathon when I was asking questions... but always with the intention of getting Mint installed and functioning.

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

I think i have an idea that just might help you...i tend to run Peppermint linux myself because i like a system that has minimal amount of default programs installed and is very easy on system hardware...im recommending you try the "Peppermint 9 respin" edition and try it out to see if that doesnt solve your heat problems etc. (The link below will only say P9, it wont say "respin" but that IS what it is, just select 64 bit or 32 bit depending on your system) If it seems to solve the problem and if you like it, (It is very much like LM in many respects even using LM update manager as well as its software manager), and operates very much like LM with no real learning curve...im providing below, the HTTPS address to download this particular version as it also is using the LTS 4.15 version kernel as well, good till april 2023...if it does work well and you need any advice from me, just be sure to post any threads in the "chat about Linux" portion of the forums since it is not LM...let me know...DAMIEN

https://peppermintos.com/previous/
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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

DAMIEN1307 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:40 am
I think i have an idea that just might help you...i tend to run Peppermint linux myself because i like a system that has minimal amount of default programs installed and is very easy on system hardware...im recommending you try the "Peppermint 9 respin" edition and try it out to see if that doesnt solve your heat problems etc. (The link below will only say P9, it wont say "respin" but that IS what it is, just select 64 bit or 32 bit depending on your system) If it seems to solve the problem and if you like it, (It is very much like LM in many respects even using LM update manager as well as its software manager), and operates very much like LM with no real learning curve...im providing below, the HTTPS address to download this particular version as it also is using the LTS 4.15 version kernel as well, good till april 2023...if it does work well and you need any advice from me, just be sure to post any threads in the "chat about Linux" portion of the forums since it is not LM...let me know...DAMIEN

https://peppermintos.com/previous/
That’s very helpful. Thanks. I’ll give it a go next weekend (I will use clonezilla to back to my system before trying a new distro in case anyone else wonders how to try multiple OS’s on their primary system). I’ll report back here if it works, but post questions in the forum you suggest.

Thanks.

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by ZakGordon »

Late to the 'over-heating' party. But i got my wings (cooked a laptop to death when i first started using Mint (17.1)). There is a link in my sig that has some tips, plus if you search for posts i've made, many of the earlier ones were relating to dealing with over-heating issues under Mint.
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

ZakGordon wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:38 pm
Late to the 'over-heating' party. But i got my wings (cooked a laptop to death when i first started using Mint (17.1)). There is a link in my sig that has some tips, plus if you search for posts i've made, many of the earlier ones were relating to dealing with over-heating issues under Mint.
I think I read your posts. Based on that one of the things I tried was switching to XFCE. But unfortunately, in my case, that did not seem to make much of a difference. I’ll check your links to see if there’s anything else I can try.

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

Bvz wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:48 pm
ZakGordon wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:38 pm
Late to the 'over-heating' party. But i got my wings (cooked a laptop to death when i first started using Mint (17.1)). There is a link in my sig that has some tips, plus if you search for posts i've made, many of the earlier ones were relating to dealing with over-heating issues under Mint.
I think I read your posts. Based on that one of the things I tried was switching to XFCE. But unfortunately, in my case, that did not seem to make much of a difference. I’ll check your links to see if there’s anything else I can try.
Correction. It looks like I have not read that. I will check that post out and try some of those suggestions. Thanks!

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by ZakGordon »

Well there is no 'magic bullet' for many systems. Sometimes if you have a 'hot' system, your going to have to try to live with it (or try a different distro).

My current Acer Travelmate laptop (one of the two laptops to survive the 'heating wars' back under 17.1) sits on a 'cooling pad' and has direct air blown into an open DVD-ROM drive with an external fan, and i've used all the tips i've linked to; and today after my child was using it to watch youtube video's for an hour or two, it hit 90 degrees C!

Mostly i keep youtube watching to short 30min sessions and it works ok (60-70 degrees C). But just an example to show what that system has been through over the last 5-6 years it's been on Mint (currently 18.1).
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

ZakGordon wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:08 pm
Well there is no 'magic bullet' for many systems. Sometimes if you have a 'hot' system, your going to have to try to live with it (or try a different distro).

My current Acer Travelmate laptop (one of the two laptops to survive the 'heating wars' back under 17.1) sits on a 'cooling pad' and has direct air blown into an open DVD-ROM drive with an external fan, and i've used all the tips i've linked to; and today after my child was using it to watch youtube video's for an hour or two, it hit 90 degrees C!

Mostly i keep youtube watching to short 30min sessions and it works ok (60-70 degrees C). But just an example to show what that system has been through over the last 5-6 years it's been on Mint (currently 18.1).
Of course. It is all a journey of discovery.

Out of curiosity, I wonder if you would have the same results running under Manjaro (or some other non-Ubntu derivative). Not that I would recommend switching, but it might be an interesting test if that interests you.

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by ZakGordon »

Well while i was learning all this (about overheating under Linux Mint vs Windows (on those same systems)) one HP laptop did not survive.

The Acer is of the same kind of era (just a much cheaper machine) as that HP laptop (both had Vista installed on them originally), and i figure it will last as long as it lasts, then a new machine will be needed. It's done good mileage already, and getting into Mint (to escape the 'evils' of Windows 8 to Windows 10) was an awesome experience.

So far i have lived with and managed the over-heating, and like Mint enough that i have not had the desire to try another option. If the over-heating was just too bad, or too difficult to control i would probably try a different distro (Bodhi is another good one by all accounts for older systems).

My new Ryzen desktop has no over-heating issues at all under Mint, so that system is mostly all good. It was a peculiar issue on the two laptops i first started out trying Linux Mint on, but others do have the same kind of problems from time to time, hopefully the link and tips around this forum can also help you 'manage' Mint over-heating :)
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

I'm still running Manjaro (the latest version - up to date) and it is still running cool.

I want to try installing Mint again this long weekend if I get the time. One thing I noticed was that Manjaro has tlp installed by default (and I assume it is running - tlp-stat appears to be working so I'm guessing it is active? Also, why have it installed by default and not be running).

So perhaps that explains the difference. Once I have a chance I will try Mint again and install tlp there and see what happens. Thanks for the help!

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by MichaelHathaway »

Here is a nice list of tools to attempt to keep your system temperatures in check. :)

https://itsfoss.com/reduce-overheating-laptops-linux/
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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

It has been a while since I started this thread, but I haven't had enough time to wipe my machine and re-install Mint (It is always in use and even when I have a day off, I can't afford to accidentally mess it up so badly I can't get back to work within a few hours).

But I did actually get the time finally a few days ago. As expected, the system was running hotter than under Manjaro. But then I installed TLP and suddenly I have temperatures in line with what Manjaro was showing me.

So thanks so much (belatedly)!

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by ZakGordon »

Well don't count your chickens too soon! Keep a close eye on the temps under differeing usage situations and fingers crossed :)
Laptop overheating? Check link here:itsfoss guide . A move from Cinnamon to XFCE can give a -5 to -10 degrees C change on overheating hardware.

Build a modern dual-boot Ryzen Win7/Linux Mint PC:Tutorial

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Re: Linux Mint temps vs. Manjaro - Dell XPS 15 9560 - can I get temps down?

Post by Bvz »

Will do. Thanks.

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