Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

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Linuz
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Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Linuz »

The developer of Timeshift, Troy George, doesn't seem to maintain the software.

Not sure if anyone else helps him develop it either. Since he doesn't get much in donations, he said he doesn't want to spend time on it anymore.

Two questions:

1. Why would Linux Mint include his software knowing that bugs will come up if he can't be bothered to fix it?

2. Is there any way for the Linux Mint team or users who are familiar with programming to help make changes to the repository?

Encountered some issues with the software recently and feeling frustrated about it. Hard to make any Linux distro my daily driver and switch away from Mac OSX when basic stuff like system backups can fail and leave you up sh*t creek

Wouldn't mind throwing a few bucks to free software developers if I know the money will help them keep applications working as intended.

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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by MrEen »

Linux Mint uses a fork of Timeshift that TG does still work on: https://github.com/linuxmint/timeshift
teejee2008 Merge pull request teejee2008#601 from marcuscf/master …
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Pjotr »

Linuz wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:14 pm
1. Why would Linux Mint include his software knowing that bugs will come up if he can't be bothered to fix it?
Open source software can also be fixed downstream, e.g. by the Mint devs. Don't know whether that happens for Timeshift; would make sense though, as it has been integrated so deeply into mintupdate.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Linuz »

Is this repository on github of timeshift different from the one the Linux Mint devs packaged with the distro?

https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift

On this repository, when I tried to make a github account and file a bug report about an issue I have been dealing with, the developer had an automated message basically saying he only checks github once per month and to get support on linux mint forums.

That's why I came here.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by rarsa »

Linuz wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:14 pm
1. Why would Linux Mint include his software knowing that bugs will come up if he can't be bothered to fix it?
I understand the frustration. However, while this is is common in Free and Open Source software and not a good thing, the alternative with proprietary solutions is usually worst.

See, developers working in Open source software usually do it to solve a problem they have. They share it with the community and then they may decide to continue supporting it or move on to other things. I think it would be unfair to ask them to support it for ever.

If it is a stable application, that may not be a problem for a long time until something happens in the environment that makes it stop working. Or a user has a configuration the original developer didn't think of.

The silver lining is that the code is out there for people to continue updating it if they find value on it. They could either fix it themselves, or pay someone to fix it for them.

With proprietary software, I have personally suffered the consequences of a company stopping supporting a software I use, or making changes that don't allow me to continue using the new version on my old set up. Or plainly, stopping operations and not having someone to support the software. There, the only alternative is to migrate to something different. If you are lucky you may be able to recover any data that was there.

Two examples:
- I used to have all my personal finances on quicken. A version that worked very well for me. One day, suddenly the application stopped working. Intuit had "expired" the app and the only solution was to buy a new version, hijacking my information.
- In the old days, before reliable internet connections, I used to have all my email in outlook. when I stopped using windows 95 I backed up my files and moved on. I didn't need the info at that time. A few years later, I tried to read those files and there is no way to do it.
- The same has happened to me with enterprise level software.

As you see, given that those are proprietary formats developers can't create solutions to even access the data.

So as to answer your question:
I'm guessing Linux mint uses timeshift because it is great and it works for most people and if someone finds a problem, they can report it and hopefuly someone can fix it. While it is not guaranteed, the likelihood is larger than zero :)
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by HaveaMint »

I don't see where you stated the problem your having.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by ricardogroetaers »

Linuz wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:14 pm
The developer of Timeshift, Troy George, doesn't seem to maintain the software. ....
His PPA for Ubuntu has a new version of "Timeshift" updated in May 2020.
https://launchpad.net/~teejee2008/+archive/ubuntu/ppa
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by smurphos »

Linuz wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:23 pm
Is this repository on github of timeshift different from the one the Linux Mint devs packaged with the distro?

https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift
Yep - mint ship a fork - source code here - https://github.com/linuxmint/timeshift - i.e it's within their power to make changes independently of the original developer.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Linuz »

HaveaMint wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:04 am
I don't see where you stated the problem your having.
I described my recent issue here. Either Timeshift compares files indefinitely when I attempt a restore, or it performs the restore, but with errors (which usually means I can't boot my OS anymore). Timeshift had been working fantastically until now:

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=320594
rarsa wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:02 am
Linuz wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 6:14 pm
1. Why would Linux Mint include his software knowing that bugs will come up if he can't be bothered to fix it?
I understand the frustration...
[...]
Yeah, open source is still better than proprietary, absolutely, because I can always pay someone else to fix the code. Since I am using the version of time machine built into Linux Mint 19.3, I guess going here for support is the best I can do.
smurphos wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 1:51 am
Linuz wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:23 pm
Is this repository on github of timeshift different from the one the Linux Mint devs packaged with the distro?

https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift
Yep - mint ship a fork - source code here - https://github.com/linuxmint/timeshift - i.e it's within their power to make changes independently of the original developer.
Ok, that confirms things for me. I am using a fork of Timeshift with Linux Mint. That means linux mint contributors or devs are maintaining their fork of timeshift for the distro which is good since I can't expect the original developer to keep working on it when he has other things to do.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by HaveaMint »

From the looks of what you did I don't think it would boot if it did restore from an apparent bad snapshot. When you "Wiped" the SSD and reinstalled it assigned new UUID's to the partition/partitions you created. The old snapshot has the old UUID's and will fail to boot. I don't understand why you fight to restore a possible bad snapshot with the wrong UUID's to a fresh install when it only takes a few moments to reinstall any apps that you may have had.
Here's what I did just now while I wait:

1. Wipe SSD again. Install Linux mint 19.3 from live USB. Mount SSD along with HDD, which contains snapshots.

2. Open timeshift and for the snapshot settings specify that I want rsync backups, point to the 2TB HDD for existing snapshots.

3. Try to restore latest snapshot that's one date older than the most recent one.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Linuz »

HaveaMint wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:42 am
From the looks of what you did I don't think it would boot if it did restore from an apparent bad snapshot. When you "Wiped" the SSD and reinstalled it assigned new UUID's to the partition/partitions you created. The old snapshot has the old UUID's and will fail to boot. I don't understand why you fight to restore a possible bad snapshot with the wrong UUID's to a fresh install when it only takes a few moments to reinstall any apps that you may have had.
Here's what I did just now while I wait:

1. Wipe SSD again. Install Linux mint 19.3 from live USB. Mount SSD along with HDD, which contains snapshots.

2. Open timeshift and for the snapshot settings specify that I want rsync backups, point to the 2TB HDD for existing snapshots.

3. Try to restore latest snapshot that's one date older than the most recent one.
If it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting what you just wrote on my support thread and explain to me there what I am doing wrong with Timeshift and what UUID means?
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by HaveaMint »

Linuz wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:06 am
HaveaMint wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:42 am
From the looks of what you did I don't think it would boot if it did restore from an apparent bad snapshot. When you "Wiped" the SSD and reinstalled it assigned new UUID's to the partition/partitions you created. The old snapshot has the old UUID's and will fail to boot. I don't understand why you fight to restore a possible bad snapshot with the wrong UUID's to a fresh install when it only takes a few moments to reinstall any apps that you may have had.
Here's what I did just now while I wait:

1. Wipe SSD again. Install Linux mint 19.3 from live USB. Mount SSD along with HDD, which contains snapshots.

2. Open timeshift and for the snapshot settings specify that I want rsync backups, point to the 2TB HDD for existing snapshots.

3. Try to restore latest snapshot that's one date older than the most recent one.
If it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting what you just wrote on my support thread and explain to me there what I am doing wrong with Timeshift and what UUID means?
I posted my reply on your other post as requested. Have a good day
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Linuz »

HaveaMint wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 1:36 pm
Linuz wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:06 am
HaveaMint wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:42 am
From the looks of what you did I don't think it would boot if it did restore from an apparent bad snapshot. When you "Wiped" the SSD and reinstalled it assigned new UUID's to the partition/partitions you created. The old snapshot has the old UUID's and will fail to boot. I don't understand why you fight to restore a possible bad snapshot with the wrong UUID's to a fresh install when it only takes a few moments to reinstall any apps that you may have had.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting what you just wrote on my support thread and explain to me there what I am doing wrong with Timeshift and what UUID means?
I posted my reply on your other post as requested. Have a good day
Thank you
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by CaptainKirksChair »

Not sure why you would use any backup software at all. Just get an external USB hard drive that is large enough in size to store your backups. So, if you have a 1TB hard drive I would recommend a 4TB external USB hard drive. Create a folder for each computer you backup. Then just drag and drop your named folder from the home folder onto the external USB drive. Start this at night and then go to bed. The backup will be complete when you get up in the morning. If this is the second or any following backup, you will have copy overwrite dialog boxes to click through. So it may not finish in the morning because it is waiting for user input. Just click through the dialog boxes until the copying finishes. You are now backed up.

The advantage of this type of backup is that the files are not compressed in some proprietary format. They are fully usable files on the backup drive. Restoring is a cinch; just drag and drop the file back to your computer.

If you like you can get a calendar app to remind you once a month to backup. Or, as often as you like. It's the easiest way I know to backup my computers.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Linuz »

CaptainKirksChair wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 6:05 pm
Not sure why you would use any backup software at all. Just get an external USB hard drive that is large enough in size to store your backups. So, if you have a 1TB hard drive I would recommend a 4TB external USB hard drive. Create a folder for each computer you backup. Then just drag and drop your named folder from the home folder onto the external USB drive. Start this at night and then go to bed. The backup will be complete when you get up in the morning. If this is the second or any following backup, you will have copy overwrite dialog boxes to click through. So it may not finish in the morning because it is waiting for user input. Just click through the dialog boxes until the copying finishes. You are now backed up.

The advantage of this type of backup is that the files are not compressed in some proprietary format. They are fully usable files on the backup drive. Restoring is a cinch; just drag and drop the file back to your computer.

If you like you can get a calendar app to remind you once a month to backup. Or, as often as you like. It's the easiest way I know to backup my computers.
The point of using backup software is to restore everything as it was before automatically with just one quick. Timeshift uses rsync as one format. Is rsync a “proprietary” format? Linux is supposed to be about modularity and freedom to modify software as one pleases.

I don’t want to drag folders. Computers were invented for doing repetitive, mundane tasks.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by ajgreeny »

Do you backup the whole OS? I only back up my home partition using rsync, I know many users say it's not really a backup application but it does all I need and I already keep copies of any system files I have edited in my home, so I have them too.

The OS itself is so easy to install that I never bother to backup that.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by cliffcoggin »

Linuz wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 6:19 pm

I don’t want to drag folders. Computers were invented for doing repetitive, mundane tasks.
I couldn't agree more, that's why I find Timeshift so useful. Once set up it requires no intervention from me, and goes about its work discretely and reliably.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by Hugh Neutron »

I used time shift to save my @$$ after I got dependency hells for forcing packages to install several times.

I actually find it sad Linux software is so Darwinian as in if it's not maintained it will die. WIndows software from 2003 works on Windows 10. Linux software from 2016 will break library compatibility. Viruses are so low using an obscure OS like this, common sense and a firewall.

I installed some software programs from source and or PPA's "like Plotinus, pixelitor and YoutubeDL Gui that had no updates in three years or more and I find them very useful because the software does a job I need people on the Linux discord were not hesitant to inform me about the "danger" of running old software.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by MrEen »

Hugh Neutron wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:41 am
people on the Linux discord were not hesitant to inform me about the "danger" of running old software.
And most of those people don't realize that the "old" software is still getting security updates from Debian/Ubuntu in most cases. Otherwise we wouldn't keep seeing updates in the Update Manager. And yes, there are exceptions.
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Re: Why does Linux Mint include Timeshift when the main developer doesn't have the time to maintain it?

Post by fotonix »

I toyed with TimeShift for about a year. At this stage it has been removed and purged from all my systems.
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