[SOLVED] Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

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FamCompKid
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[SOLVED] Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

This will be my first time upgrading to a whole new Ubuntu base. I understand that coming from 19.3, I need to be doing a clean install. And file backups.

My main concern is the compatibility of the software/apps I'm using, and whether they're already available in the repos, excluding Flatpaks.

For example, a couple months ago CherryTree was only available via Flatpak for Ubuntu 20.04, but now its "normal" version is already available in the repos, and its development has been stopped for Ubuntu 18.04 for which the developer said he'll be releasing its Flatpak version.

But it looks like there's no way of telling which CherryTree is for which Mint just from browsing the Software Manager.

Before upgrading, I want to make sure I won't have to be using any Flatpaks--I don't like their huge sizes.

So my question is, how can I be sure that all the apps I use are already available in the repos, except Flatpaks, for LM 20?

My game plan is to go to the website of each software/app and check whether it supports Ubuntu 20.04.

Also, is there an easy way to list all the software/apps I installed myself? I've installed from/using the Software Manager, PPA, .deb, .run, and AppImage.

Please point me in a better direction if any.

Many TIA.
Last edited by FamCompKid on Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kadaitcha Man
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by Kadaitcha Man »

FamCompKid wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:16 am
My main concern is the compatibility of the software/apps I'm using, and whether they're already available in the repos, excluding Flatpaks.
https://packages.ubuntu.com/

Linux MInt 20 is based on focal.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by Kester »

Hi FamCompKid,
FamCompKid wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:16 am
I understand that coming from 19.3, I need to be doing a clean install. And file backups.
Technically you do not need to do a clean install although many of the experts on this forum advise it is the best way to upgrade. If you can spare the time though, it may be worth upgrading from within LM19.3 but the process is slow as I witnessed from my own experience. Other than the slowness, I had no problems. You've nothing to lose choosing this route other than time as you will still have the clean install option available. Obviously it would still be wise to backup your personal files and make a note of the programs you have installed - some of the programs you have used in LM19.3 may not work in LM20 after the repositories are updated. You may also find that some printers and printer/scanners can be problematic although usually the problems can be overcome relatively easily.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:30 am
https://packages.ubuntu.com/

Linux MInt 20 is based on focal.
Thank you.
Kester wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:56 am
it may be worth upgrading from within LM19.3 but the process is slow
I think it would be mentally healthier for me to just do a clean install :D Was against it initially but I just know I'll bork it if I go the mintupdate route :lol: I'm not up for that.
Kester wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:56 am
make a note of the programs you have installed - some of the programs you have used in LM19.3 may not work in LM20 after the repositories are updated.
I'm making a list now. It's actually the programs that held me back then. Hope I can finally do it now. Thank you!
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by JoeFootball »

FamCompKid wrote: I think it would be mentally healthier for me to just do a clean install :D Was against it initially but I just know I'll bork it if I go the mintupdate route :lol: I'm not up for that.
Also, keep in mind that LM 19.3 is still supported until April 2023, so if everything is working there, and you don't have an overly compelling reason for LM 20, your existing system has years of life to go.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

JoeFootball wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:17 am
LM 19.3 is still supported until April 2023
Yes, I'm aware of that. Except for the programs I use, I also don't have a compelling reason to stay with 19.3 (but I'm guessing that's mostly the reason for staying?). It looks like I found one that requires Snap on LM 20, though, so there's that. Thanks.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by JoeFootball »

FamCompKid wrote: I also don't have a compelling reason to stay with 19.3 (but I'm guessing that's mostly the reason for staying?).
Speaking for myself, all my production deployments stay with whatever the latest supported LM x.3 version is. Any later versions of LM are for my development environments.
FamCompKid wrote: It looks like I found one that requires Snap on LM 20, though, so there's that.
I would take Snap out of any consideration. Again, speaking for myself.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

I'm pretty much just a regular, non-techie user so jumping into the latest release is just my natural course of action. Just for context :)
JoeFootball wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:04 am
I would take Snap out of any consideration.
Yes I think Snap generally is a...thing I shouldn't be doing. Good news is there's a .deb option for the app so that's out of the way.

So far I'm not sure whether AppImage apps generally follow this table, "Oracle JDK 11 Certified System Configurations". I was brought there by Cryptomator, which is an AppImage.

Also, do "installer.run" programs run on any distro release?

Those two seem to be the culprits but I think they can be run "universally" but I'm not sure.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by JoeFootball »

FamCompKid wrote: So far I'm not sure whether AppImage apps generally follow this table, "Oracle JDK 11 Certified System Configurations". I was brought there by Cryptomator, which is an AppImage.

Also, do "installer.run" programs run on any distro release?
Those are ambiguous questions, to which I shall ambiguously answer, it depends. :)

I'm sure there are AppImage apps that meet that Oracle specification, and those that don't. Likewise, I'm sure there are installer.run scripts that will execute on just about any distro, and those that are more distro specific.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by Hoser Rob »

Kester wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:56 am
Hi FamCompKid,
FamCompKid wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:16 am
I understand that coming from 19.3, I need to be doing a clean install. And file backups.
Technically you do not need to do a clean install although many of the experts on this forum advise it is the best way to upgrade. ....
That's been true for Ubuntu and Mint for some time, and apparently even more so going from Mint 19.3 to 20 ... I still haven't installed `19 yet myself. The thing is, the web upgrade process just isn't reliable enough for a major point release upgrade.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

Technically you do not need to do a clean install although many of the experts on this forum advise it is the best way to upgrade.
"Technically", I totally disagree with this comment...The biggest thing ive seen causing problems doing an upgrade, rather than a clean install, are problems that are caused by Python 2 versus Python 3, between these 2 very different platforms...Programs that are reliant on Python language will have problems when upgraded, versus clean install...DAMIEN
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

JoeFootball wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:47 am
Those are ambiguous questions, to which I shall ambiguously answer, it depends.
Rushed questions, actually, sorry about that. I'll have to further look into them.

I don't really like clean installs because I'd have to set everything up again, but because of my perpetual noobness I would need it anyways :mrgreen: Actually as I look at my program list and config files and whatnot, I'm starting to see a compelling reason to just stay with 19.3 haha. Like I said I'd jump to the latest release mostly just for the sake of it, there's not really a reason not to upgrade as my machines are quite capable to handle them anyway. But Mint has always been snappy for me so okay did I just give myself a better dilemma. Flatpaks, though, yeah, darnit.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by JoeFootball »

FamCompKid wrote: I don't really like clean installs because I'd have to set everything up again, but because of my perpetual noobness I would need it anyways :mrgreen:
Get used to it. Treat every Linux deployment as only temporary, because they really are. Keep your important files backed up elsewhere.
FamCompKid wrote: Actually as I look at my program list and config files and whatnot, I'm starting to see a compelling reason to just stay with 19.3 haha. Like I said I'd jump to the latest release mostly just for the sake of it, there's not really a reason not to upgrade as my machines are quite capable to handle them anyway.
Note that I'm not saying don't try LM 20. I'm suggesting keeping with LM 19.3 because it's working and is supported for years, and if you're really curious to try LM 20, then install it alongside LM 19.3. That's what I do.

The latest LM x.3 is my production (important) environment, and the latest LM overall is my development (playground) environment. Sometime in the early months of 2022, I'll retire LM 19.3 for production, and migrate to LM 20.3 via a clean install.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by Kester »

"Technically", I totally disagree with this comment.
@DAMIEN1307 - I think we are using the English language in a different way to interpret the word 'technically', I was using it in the sense of 'feasibility' as it is indeed possible to upgrade from within LM19.3. However I did go on to state that many experts, obviously including you, do not recommend that approach but state undertaking a fresh install is better practice. I was lucky in my own upgrading from within LM19.3 and was just passing on my experience. I carried out my upgrade knowing that, should I get serious problems, I could undertake a fresh install from scratch (I had a live DVD already prepared but did not need to use it but it's there for future emergencies).

So in no way am I disagreeing with your view and that of the other experts that a fresh install is the better option. One of the beauties of Linux in general and Linux Mint in particular, as long as you have a good data file backup policy, is that you can explore, try things out and, if the worst happens, do a fresh install relatively easily. And of course, as a Linux Mint user, you have access to the wisdom of the experts on this forum.

Cheers.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

JoeFootball wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:11 pm
LM x.3
Just curious, why x.3 and not, say, x.1?

My PCs are my daily drivers. I don't see a need to install 19.x and 20.x side by side.
Kester wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:53 pm
One of the beauties of Linux in general and Linux Mint in particular, as long as you have a good data file backup policy, is that you can explore, try things out and, if the worst happens, do a fresh install relatively easily.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Actually if I only had the time and wits to mintupgrade 19.3 to 20, maybe I would. But I don't really have the time, and certainly not the wits. Was frustrated at first to know that a clean install is the recommended method for a new release. I'll just keep hoping for that time we wouldn't need clean installs anymore, though, that'd be so fine.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by JoeFootball »

FamCompKid wrote: Just curious, why x.3 and not, say, x.1?
Because I consider the last version of a major LM branch (i.e., x.3) to be the most "polished", and I know that it would still have years of support upon its release. That said, I do have interest in the subsequent major branch, hence the multiple deployments.
FamCompKid wrote: My PCs are my daily drivers. I don't see a need to install 19.x and 20.x side by side.
That's your preference, and I cannot debate that. :)
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by zcot »

FamCompKid wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:16 am
... easy way to list all the software/apps I installed myself? I've installed from/using the Software Manager, PPA, .deb, .run, and AppImage.
Check in the menu for the Mint "Backup tool", it will give you a listing of most of that.

The ppa sources will need to be collected, and checking out ~/Downloads for .run and appimage stuff, or however you deployed those.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

Also, is there an easy way to list all the software/apps I installed myself? I've installed from/using the Software Manager, PPA, .deb, .run, and AppImage.
The mint backup tool has already been mentioned, but that's just a starter. It will only install applications that are in the LM20 repos, so any additional repositories added, e.g. virtualbox, ppas and debs will not get installed. And just because it was in the repos for LM19 does not mean it will be in the repos for LM20, e.g. fslint. The most common reason for this is no python 2 in LM20. I got caught out moving LM17 to LM18 (no idea what I'd installed), so from LM18 on I've kept notes on every change I've made. For LM19 to LM20 I've written a script to setup a vanilla LM20 install with everything I want. Not for everybody, I've done it because I can; and because I've three laptops & one desktop and want them all setup the same.

It does help having a separate /home partition.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by FamCompKid »

JoeFootball wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:07 pm
That's your preference, and I cannot debate that.
Hehe yeah. I just happen to have 2 PCs, really. A lot of Linux users I see who have multiple machines seem to be doing some sort of development or programming etc. and I can see, like you explained, why they stay with a particular series, sometimes literally maximizing LTS. It's all personal preference. But me, I just happen to have 2 PCs.
zcot wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:32 pm
Check in the menu for the Mint "Backup tool", it will give you a listing of most of that.

The ppa sources will need to be collected, and checking out ~/Downloads for .run and appimage stuff, or however you deployed those.
Thank you!
AndyMH wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:58 pm
I got caught out moving LM17 to LM18 (no idea what I'd installed), so from LM18 on I've kept notes on every change I've made. For LM19 to LM20 I've written a script to setup a vanilla LM20 install with everything I want. Not for everybody, I've done it because I can; and because I've three laptops & one desktop and want them all setup the same.
Don't you find that limiting--where on every release update you would have to lose something? I also want my PCs set up the same.
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Re: Questions before I upgrade to LM 20 Ulyana

Post by AndyMH »

FamCompKid wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:42 am
AndyMH wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:58 pm
I got caught out moving LM17 to LM18 (no idea what I'd installed), so from LM18 on I've kept notes on every change I've made. For LM19 to LM20 I've written a script to setup a vanilla LM20 install with everything I want. Not for everybody, I've done it because I can; and because I've three laptops & one desktop and want them all setup the same.
Don't you find that limiting--where on every release update you would have to lose something? I also want my PCs set up the same.
I haven't lost anything, for all the 'problem' applications in LM20 I've found workarounds, either a ppa (where it was in the repo for LM19 but not LM20), e.g. shutter, or installing additional packages, e.g. python2, or installing from a different source, e.g. chromium.
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