Helena KDE CE update

[Husse]

Please behave!
I don't hesitate to take action if a topic goes "out of hand" but I really hope that I don't have to
And yes the KDE edition is a bit late, but a RC will appear any day now. Boo had terrible problems even to get anything based on 9.10 just to load on his "build machine" - took weeks before that was solved (remove dmraid if I remember right, but Boo knows better what it was)
Clem is the only one in the Mint team to get paid (yet )
The rest of us work on Mint in our spare time so it can take a while to get things done

[aelfinn]

Clem is the only one in the Mint team to get paid (yet )
The rest of us work on Mint in our spare time

And we love you for that!

[gravelbay]

Is there any chance of a moderator cleaning out the irrelevant stuff that's been accumulating here (including this one) so it's easier to find out what's really going on with the Helena KDE CE update? I tried going back and deleting my useless stuff just now but didn't find a delete function.

[Husse]

You have in the upper right corner of your post Edit, a x which is delete, a ! which is Report and Quote
I don't like deleting posts in a topic, you should see how it evolves
Any spam or really abusive post will be deleted immediately

[blazemore]

I don't understand something here. I'm not complaining, just wondering if there is an ETA for a release candidate?

[distro hopper]

A few posts back I believe Husse said we should have an RC any day now. Many of us are anxiously waiting this release, but I am glad they are taking the time to get all the kinks out. I played with Kubuntu 9.10 a little and personally believe they did a horrible job on the release- those problems could have probably been averted had they not been on such a strict release cycle and rushed it out the door. Good luck KDE CE team, I hope it's well worth the wait.

[gravelbay]

You have in the upper right corner of your post Edit, a x which is delete, a ! which is Report and Quote
I don't like deleting posts in a topic, you should see how it evolves
Any spam or really abusive post will be deleted immediately

Thanks Husse. That makes sense to me.

BTW, the "X" is only there if my post is the most recent in the thread. Earlier ones don't have it. I guess that explains why I couldn't go back & clean out my older ones. Oh well. I'm just looking forward to the KDE version of Helena. Woo hoo!

[Husse]

BTW, the "X" is only there if my post is the most recent in the tread. Earlier ones don't have it.

Well well - one of the downsides of being a moderator is that I have that little x in every post by everyone
I did not know it was only the latest - must log in as someone else occasionally to see what it looks like

[blazemore]

LK, I draw your attention to a part in this excellent article http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm (Title irrelevant)

While this may not be exactly your scenario, as it is talking about support, while you are talking about a release, the point still stands:

Windows users are more or less in a customer-supplier relationship: They pay for software, for warranties, for support, and so on. They expect software to have a certain level of usability. They are therefore used to having rights with their software: They have paid for technical support and have every right to demand that they receive it. They are also used to dealing with entities rather than people: Their contracts are with a company, not with a person.

Linux users are in more of a community. They don't have to buy the software, they don't have to pay for technical support. They download software for free & use Instant Messaging and web-based forums to get help. They deal with people, not corporations.

A Windows user will not endear himself by bringing his habitual attitudes over to Linux, to put it mildly.

The biggest cause of friction tends to be in the online interactions: A "3a" user new to Linux asks for help with a problem he's having. When he doesn't get that help at what he considers an acceptable rate, he starts complaining and demanding more help. Because that's what he's used to doing with paid-for tech support. The problem is that this isn't paid-for support. This is a bunch of volunteers who are willing to help people with problems out of the goodness of their hearts. The new user has no right to demand anything from them, any more than somebody collecting for charity can demand larger donations from contributors.

If a "3a" user runs into trouble with Linux, he'll complain: The software hasn't met his standards, and he thinks he has a right to expect that standard. His mood won't be improved when he gets sarcastic replies like "I'd demand a refund if I were you"

So, to avoid problem #3a: Simply remember that you haven't paid the developer who wrote the software or the people online who provide the tech support. They don't owe you anything.

[pug]

I hate to reply to a thread that's already been dragged off topic (maybe a mod split?) but I can't help myself here.

LK the thing about linux is that it comes in many different flavours. If paid support and a reliable release schedule is what you're looking for then there are distros out there that might suit you better. The KDE release of mint is a Community Edition meaning nobody is paid to put time into it, all work is done on a purely voluntary basis. The reason mint in general is gaining in popularity is because people like the end result. This is also true of the KDE release, it may take a little longer to get out there, but when it does I'm sure it will be worth the wait.

The reason (in my view) people reacted badly to your comments is because they came across as being disproving of the fact that the latest release wasn't out in a time frame that suits you. Maybe you're new to linux, and you're not yet used to the philosophy and ethos behind a community driven distro so it could be down to a noobish windows like mindset, but you have to realise that people freely give up their own free time to work on the release for the good of the community and should be applauded for their efforts and supported in every way. Boo has no boss in this, he could turn around tomorrow and say he's had enough and if nobody wanted to take over that could be the end of it. The only motivational factors I can think of for individuals to put in so much effort for no financial reward is either for their own self satisfaction, or for the appreciation and respect of the larger community. So in my mind we have absolutely no rights to make any demands or have any expectations out of people who are community developers, to do so just strikes as being plain disrespectful.

We can ask yes, we can be eager and impatient I know I am, we can even try and coax info wherever we can, but we shouldn't ever be disproving of peoples efforts or demanding of peoples free time. Think of it this way, if mint KDE was based on a community that were all as demanding of it's unpaid volunteers as you seem to be how long do you think the distro would last if it's volunteers had to read nothing but comments like yours every day?

[EDIT] Looks like the post I was replying to has disappeared, so mods feel free to delete/move/ignore the above as you see fit

[Husse]

I have removed some posts that turned this topic into a flame war
Be warned legendkiller and warriorpoet - I'll remove you too if I see more stupidities from you
There were some uncalled for remarks by others too, but nothing untolerable
On the subject of release - Boo is still having problems to get a decent wifi working - knetwork manager seems unfit
That's holding a release back now

[Husse]

Please do not comment any more on previous bad behavior - let's put that behind us and use this topic only for it's real purpose or I'll might have to lock it which would be sad

[roshanpius]

I have removed some posts that turned this topic into a flame war
Be warned legendkiller and warriorpoet - I'll remove you too if I see more stupidities from you
There were some uncalled for remarks by others too, but nothing untolerable
On the subject of release - Boo is still having problems to get a decent wifi working - knetwork manager seems unfit
That's holding a release back now

I've had a torrid time with the knetwork manager with my Kubuntu 9.10. I eventually had to change my wifi router from WEP to WPA authentication to get it working. It was an absolute pain. And from my googling i'm not the only one whose facing the issue.
I think the KDE developers need to fix the core issues in KDE4 rather than trying to beautify the look-n-feel. The look-n-feel doesn't matter if the core functionality like wifi doesn't work out of the box.

It's good that Mint is trying to get the network manager working fully before releasing it... Maybe we could use wicd.. But that probably might lose some integration with default kde4 behaviour.

[Husse]

Well - it was a good thing to change from WEP to WPA - WEP is completely useless, I think aircrack breaks it in less than a minute
We are in fact trying to get the Gnome network manager to work like it did in Gloria KDE but there's some problem that we did not have in Gloria

[blazemore]

I always just use the Gnome network manager (nm-applet) on KDE. It works beautifully.

[wrender]

Most people I heard ended up using wicid which is what I had to switch to as well. I do not know how that compares to the gome network manager... what is the difference? and why choose one over the other?

[enigma]

Hello

I'll give you my recent experiences with KDE WI-FI.

My wife's machine developed a problem so I thought it was time to update her LTS so I downloaded and installed a FEW new distros and absolutely none with one exception worked on her WI-FI.

Her WI-FI has been working for years. It is a basic D-Link unit. It works.

I tried Kubuntu 9.10 and Ubuntu 9.10. Neither worked. I tried some current LiveCD KDE 3.5 and 4 versions but no luck.

The only distro that works is OpenSUSE 11.2. The reason is that during the install the installer asked whether the user wants to use KNetworkManager. I answered No and now she has a fully functional WI-FI.

It maybe a good idea to offer the user the same option in Mint KDE. I don't know what OpenSUSE uses in place of KNetworkManager maybe WICD but it works.

Hope this helps.

[roshanpius]

Hello

I'll give you my recent experiences with KDE WI-FI.

My wife's machine developed a problem so I thought it was time to update her LTS so I downloaded and installed a FEW new distros and absolutely none with one exception worked on her WI-FI.

Her WI-FI has been working for years. It is a basic D-Link unit. It works.

I tried Kubuntu 9.10 and Ubuntu 9.10. Neither worked. I tried some current LiveCD KDE 3.5 and 4 versions but no luck.

The only distro that works is OpenSUSE 11.2. The reason is that during the install the installer asked whether the user wants to use KNetworkManager. I answered No and now she has a fully functional WI-FI.

It maybe a good idea to offer the user the same option in Mint KDE. I don't know what OpenSUSE uses in place of KNetworkManager maybe WICD but it works.

Hope this helps.

Actually i'm currently using the default KnetworkManager in OpenSuse 11.2 and i've had no problems for connecting with WIFI. Whereas in kubuntu i frequently had wifi disconnections. So there is something to do with distro as well as KDE4.
Actually OpenSuse 11.2 is the best KDE 4 distro i've used so far.
It seems like a lot of work has gone into polishing the vanilla KDE4. Because i always had a lot of "Plasma" crashes in all the other KDE4 distros i've used.

[enigma]

Hello

My previous post made the point only that OpenSUSE 11.2's none KNetworkManager mode worked for our WI-FI installation when other distros that I tried did not.

I did not try OpenSUSE 11.2 with KNetworkManager.

I am not that brave . . .

Thanks

[warriorpoet]

I have removed some posts that turned this topic into a flame war
Be warned legendkiller and warriorpoet - I'll remove you too if I see more stupidities from you
There were some uncalled for remarks by others too, but nothing untolerable
On the subject of release - Boo is still having problems to get a decent wifi working - knetwork manager seems unfit
That's holding a release back now

Husse,

Any news on what specifically is giving Boo trouble? knetwork manager seems to work fine for me (actually, never had a problem with it), but seems a sore point for many others. Any config info?