Will Linux Mint 21.1 Get New Xfce 4.18 ?

[JeZxLee]

Hi,

Will Linux Mint 21.1 get new Xfce 4.18 ?

Jesse

[SMG]

Will Linux Mint 21.1 get new Xfce 4.18 ?

No.

According to the New Features Linux Mint 21.1 Xfce, "Linux Mint 21.1 features Xfce 4.16, a Linux kernel 5.15 and an Ubuntu 22.04 package base."

[JeZxLee]

Guess will wait for it in Linux Mint 21.2

[achatinasnail]

I have found a solution to install xfce 4.18 on Linux Mint :

THIS TUTORIAL IS EXPERIMENTAL

PLEASE CREATE A TIMESHIFT-BACKUP BEFORE INSTALLING


1. Run sudo apt-get update
2. Run sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging
3. Run sudo apt-get update
4. sudo apt purge mint-meta-core mint-meta-codecs mint-meta-xfce && sudo apt purge mint-artwork
5. Run sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
6. Logout and change Desktop-Envirolement to xubuntu-session
7. After changing to xfce, open a Terminal and type: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
8. When you want the look from Mint xfce, download https://mega.nz/file/Iuhk2YrD#7Wp_WLMDB ... lUzm3brnio
9. Import via right-clicking to taskbar and click on Bar.
10. Click on Bar-settings
11. Click on Backup and Restore.
12. Click on Import
13. Import downloaded file
14. Apply Imported File
15. Close all Windows and reboot.

[karlchen]

Hello, achatinasnail.

I have found a solution to install xfce 4.18 on Linux Mint : [...]

Honestly, quite honestly:
You recommend mixing Linux Mint (21.1) with MX Linux 21.3, thus creating some Frankenstein monster as a result.
In case having a consistent, functional, user-friendly Linux desktop system, which brings along xfce 4.18 out of the box, is important to you, then you will be much better off switching to MX Linux 21.3 xfce. No need to mix software repositories from 4 different Linux distributions (Debian 11, MX Linux 21.3, Ubuntu 22.04, Linux Mint 21.x).

Karl
--
P.S.:
The list of steps has been modified substantially after I had submitted my reply. The most important change: MX Linux 21.3 software will no longer be merged into LM 21.1. Getting xfce 4.18 from a Ubuntu based PPA ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging should be much less likely to cause conflicts.

[achatinasnail]

I tried MX Linux but it was too slow on my old laptop. The solution I provided worked fine for me.

achatinasnail

[karlchen]

Hello, achatinasnail.

Looking more closely once more at your steps, I notice that you do not only unconditionally mix MX Linux 21.3 repos with Linux Mint 21.1 repos. In addition you also add a Ubuntu Launchpad PPA plus you pull in something from a third party download page https://mega.nz/file/Iuhk2YrD#7Wp_WLMDBEcDiqBFPtiR1nTRyM0sbXJp7lUzm3brnio.
As if all this were not sufficiently convoluted, you permit downloading and installing from untrusted repos.
And you remove Linux Mint 21.1 core components.

Even if a t this point in time may have given you something, which seems to work as you expect, it is a terrible mixture of different unrelated sources. Time will tell which dependency problems you may encounter in the future, when Linux int 21.1 offers software updates for installation.

Definitely your approach is not what I will follow. let a alone recommend others to follow.

Regards,
Karl

[Cosmo.]

Some interesting quotes from https://itsfoss.com/upgrade-xfce-xubuntu/ regarding upgrading xubuntu wtth xfce 4.18:

If you feel experimental, you can upgrade

I suggest making a Timeshift backup of your system settings.

(completely missing in the above advice)

you'd need to use PPA. It is used by the developers to try and test Xfce for the next version release of Xubuntu.

If somebody finds it working well, this does not imply, that this will happen for everybody.

[achatinasnail]

Thanks karlchen and Cosmo. I corrected and removed mx Linux and Debian sources, this ist Not longer needed.

[karlchen]

Quite obviously by following the given steps,

Code: Select all

2. Run sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging
[...]
4. sudo apt purge mint-meta-core mint-meta-codecs mint-meta-xfce && sudo apt purge mint-artwork
5. Run sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop

LM 21.1 provided xfce 4.16 gets replaced by the xubuntu-desktop (provided by the Launchpad PPA ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging).
It remains a mystery, why in addition in the initial version of the post the Debian based MX Linux 21.3. had to be merged into this xfce 4.18 desktop as well.
(Seems as if the Debian and MX Linux 21.3 parts have been eliminated from the list of steps by now.)

Oh, I see. While I was typing my post achatinasnail has confirmed that the Debian/MX Linux 21.3 repos are not needed and have been removed from the initial instruction.

[SMG]

I have found a solution to install xfce 4.18 on Linux Mint :

The original poster did not ask how to create their own customized Linux Mint 21.1 install with Xfce 4.18 which may or may not work with any future updates.

Instead of creating a topic in Tutorials with something you actually tested before writing up, you decided to hijack someone else's support topic with your untested "experiment".

And in your experiment you are telling people to go to an untrusted file download for "the look from Mint xfce". Linux Mint packages are not a one-time file download and one should not be going to a non-Linux-Mint website to get them.

Linux Mint 21.2 with Xfce 4.18 will be out in a couple of months.

[Hoser Rob]

... PLEASE CREATE A TIMESHIFT-BACKUP BEFORE INSTALLING...

That was in fact the ONLY sensible thing in that whole 'tutorial'.

ANd while it may be working for you now it's simply a matter of time before it breaks. I really wish that users with zero understanding of how Linux works would refrain from trying to write tutorials for others.

[Cosmo.]

That was in fact the ONLY sensible thing in that whole 'tutorial'.

Not even that. This sentence had only got inserted after my post. I am sure, that karlchen has seen this also.

BTW: I would even judge this post as a violation of forum rule 5b.

[zcot]

I have found a solution to install xfce 4.18 on Linux Mint :

4. sudo apt purge mint-meta-core mint-meta-codecs mint-meta-xfce && sudo apt purge mint-artwork

It's not even Mint anymore. This is absurd.

And it's not even a solid version of Xubuntu either.

what a waste of my time!


good April Fool's joke though!

[Hoser Rob]

Xfce 4.18 is supported in Ubuntu 23.04 (Lunar Lobster), which just came out in early beta a few days ago. It's not LTS (that'll be 24.04) and I very much doubt Xfce has improved it to the point where you'd want to suffer an early beta (ie. bugfest) to get it. I doubt it'll be in Mint until the next major point release.

[zcot]

Mint 21.2 will have Xfce 4.18: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=4470

[zcot]

So, to add, just to really drive the point home. With Xfce 4.18 being available from Mint 21.2, it also means that it should be exactly the same for Mint 21.1 as well as Mint 21 because the base is exactly the same(ie. Ubuntu Jammy).

It means there is no magic voodoo required. It means there is no strange PPA mangling that is required. It means that you don't have to remove all remnants of Mint. And it means you do not have to add the base repository from some alternate Xubuntu source.

How will it be done? I don't know, will they simply just build the current source into the system? Maybe match the relevant updates from the Xubuntu advanced-version repo directly? who knows?

One thing for sure, -it will not be any of the aforementioned madness!

[rossdv8]

I'm currently running Mint Xfce 21.1 with Xfce 4.18, and I don;t think there are too many exciting things that warrant not waiting for another couple of months for Mint 21.2

The most sensible thing I've noticed so far is that the default File Manager (which I seldom use) has a Search Icon added to the buttons at the top (the Magnifying Glass icon). That's something most of the others have had for ages!

So far it is playing nicely with my very much modded Mint 21.1, but I'm only running it on my Multimedia Computer (that I access through NoMachine VNC) just in case there's anything weird happening. Fortunately it is usually pretty easy to drop Xfce back to its previous release.

*** N O T E *** The Transparent Apps do NOT come with Xfce 4.18. That stuff is just Mint Xfce with a few 'tweaks'.


I used the following, to install it - No fancy tricks, just one PPA added. No logging into some other distro to make it work.
I watched the files that were being downloaded and upgraded (grep) and there were no changes to Python, which is the thing that usually breaks Xfce if your distro isn't set up for it. (so I probably wouldn't try adding Xfce 4.18 to Mint Mate or Cinnamon.

I agree that doing a Timeshift snapshot is the sensible thing to do. I've been screwing up Linux distros for more than 20 years so I'm used to taking risks.
If Xfce 4.18 was NOT going to be in Mint 21.2, until some time around Christmas, I'd probably advocate having a go and seeing where it leaves you (sometimes a reinstall), but as it is only a couple of months away, I recommend waiting until June. As for me. I like testing stuff if it is around.

So, the adventure began with:

Make sure all current updates are done immediately before trying to mess up your Mint:
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade

If you have any doubt at all about your system, do a Timeshift snapshot. I don;t, because I have separate /root and /home partitions. I can reinstall completely and all I have to do is reinstall my Apps.
Do a Timeshift if you are at all unsure !!

As far as I understand, Mint is still based on the Ubuntu base, BUT the Mint team makes lots of changes before it adds something like the newest Xfce to the distribution, so this is where we can come unstuck.
However, because Xubuntu has Xfce 4,18 already, we take a chance and drag the Xfce4 packages out of its repository:

Add the Xubuntu unstable repo:
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging

Update Apt:
sudo apt update

Check that the new packages are those upgrading to Xfce 4.18:
apt list --upgradable | grep '4.18'

You will now have to do dist-upgrade, not just a normal upgrade for Apps:
sudo apt dist-upgrade

Check if it worked:
xfce4-about

(You should get the Info window similar to mine above (but with your ordinary theming of course)

Now you should be able to either reboot, or just log out and back in again.
(provided you already have Xfce as Default at Login - just select it if it is not Default)

# If it worked, the above took about 5 minutes including the reboot #
U P D AT E: I am on a gigabit Internet Connection and a high speed router. So you some people might take half an hour for the whole process to complete! (I just did another computer and noticed the time estimations and multiplied them by 5)

!! If it DIDN't work - grab your ,iso and reinstall, or try a Timeshift restore !!
Be Prepared to do a boot from the .iso you installed Mint from if this fails. It is probably unlikely - but it might not boot.

*** If you have ANY doubts, wait 2 months and upgrade to Mint 21.2 ***
U P D A T E !!
Some systems like one of my older computers definitely do NOT like the Update to Xfce 4.18
Everything seems to work nicely EXCEPT a few items.
Among them, is one that can be very IMPORTANT on a day to day basis if you like to use multiple workspaces. The Panel Item 'Workspace Switcher'.
Xfce 4.18 on 'some' systems, makes the Workspace items stretch horizontally, and 4 or 5 workspace 'places' can take up almost the entire panel, leaving no option other than top Remove the Switcher and revert to Ctrl+Alt+Left Arrow and Right Arrow to switch workspaces. Not a big deal for most experienced Xfce users, but a bit of a shock for people who habitually use the Switcher.

THAT is just One More reason you SHOULS WAIT until Mint 21.2 is released at the tnd of June / Early July.

So far it is on only one of my computers,and that one is the most heavily modified away from plain old Mint Xfce - but it just emphasises that updating prematurely can be a bad idea.

In the mean time I'll see if I can find some other nasties . .

[rossdv8]

I'll put this in as a Separate Post, just in case someone has been silly enough to install Xfce 4.18 and run into trouble.
The only problem I found was that the Workplace Switcher doesn't play nice yet. I thought I should see if it was difficult to get back to Xfce 4.16

I'll edit this post to add some instructions after I've attended to some daily stuff.

********************
So - to Downgrade again from Xfce 4.18 to Xfce 4.16 (if things are broken)

It it possible, maybe even preferable, to remove a particular PPA, and that can be done easily enough through Update Manager, or through Synaptic Settings menu.
In my case, I wanted to be able to keep the repository, and simply disable it.
Again, that can easily be done using Synaptic. I'm still a bit of a command line bunny, even though I make full use of most GUis.

Reverting from Xfce 4.18 to Xfce 4.16 is MESSY and will still leave a few odd things misconfigured. Like the xfce4-about command, which will still show Xfce 4.18 and Xubuntu, ever after you have 4.16 running again.
**
what the ppa-purge script/tool does (from https://itsfoss.com/ppa-purge/#revertin ... -by-ubuntu):

# PPA Purge disables a given PPA but doesn’t delete it.
# If there was a new application (which is not available from any sources other than only the PPA) installed with the given PPA, it is uninstalled.
# If the PPA upgraded an already installed application, that application will be reverted to the version provided by the official Ubuntu repositories.
# If you used the PPA to install (not upgrade) a newer version of an application (which is also available from the official Ubuntu repository), using PPA Purge will downgrade the application version to the one available from Ubuntu repositories. - yeah, right !!!
**

So, in a Terminal:

sudo apt install ppa-purge
sudo ppa-purge ppa:xubuntu-dev/staging
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade

NOTE:
Here, I guessed that I should use sudo apt dist-upgrade, as I had to do to install 4.18 and perhaps that's why a few things went off the rails. I was doing most of this by feel, because I haven't had to revert a D.E. in an awful lot of years.

Anyway, after doing the above stuff, try opening Synaptic and doing a search for mint-meta
If it is not installed, you will probably need mint-meta-xfce.
While you are there, make sure you still have mint-meta-core, although it is very unlikely that has been removed or you probably wouldn't have got this far.

## When I tried to install mint-meta-xfce, I had broken package problems. I don;t even know for sure if I needed to mess around installing it, but it did say mint and xfce in the one meta thingy, so I persevered.

Synaptic's Fix Broken Packages didn;t work so I used our old friend:
sudo apt update --fix-missing

That didn't work completely, so I had a go at:
sudo apt install -f

Still getting errors, so I tried most of these (it can be handy to have these filed in your BASH files folder):
sudo dpkg --configure -a

sudo dpkg -l | grep ^..R

sudo dpkg --purge --force-all [package-name]

sudo apt clean

sudo apt update

# Somewhere in all this, I think at the 'grep' command, I got a list of thiings that would not install because of missing dependencies. I know - I should have diarised it all as I was doing it. I'm getting old and forgetful.
Anyway, I started going through the list and adding the stray dependencies, by searching for them in Synaptic one at a time and installing each. They were only silly little things like glibc and or something, but the version supplied with 4.18 had been removed and the old one not replaced.

It all took about an hour of trial and error (mostly error) and trying to remember stuff I haven't had to use in years. But it is all back and working now except that the xfce4-about still thinks I'm running 4.18

A look in Synaptic though, shows everything is back at 4.18

Now I can reinstall Xfce 4.19 and see if I can break something else.
Because I use Compiz window manager, rather than xfwm, I didn;t really have to worry about the Workplace Switcher being out of whack. Compiz has heaps of ways to switch between desktops.

Again - I advise waiting for Mint 21.2 - I just do this because people say it can be done, and I want to know if it makes a mess, or a really bad mess . . .

[zcot]

my very much modded Mint 21.1

lol!

Ja!

Always fun to see some of your crazy concoctions! Pretty amazing.


So, the changelog is there in case anyone wants to see what has changed. quite a list actually: https://www.xfce.org/download/changelogs/4.18