Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Questions about the experimental Wayland support on Linux Mint Cinnamon
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LazyWings
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Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by LazyWings »

Hi, fairly new to Linux but have been wrapping my head around most of it so please bear with me as I try to learn! I think this is the right place for this question but please redirect if not.

I'm testing out the Wayland version and whenever I go in it seems to set my keyboard layout to US instead of GB which is the correct one for me. There is no option to change keyboard layout in the keyboard setting GUI. I've been researching this for a while and the only answer I get is that Wayland does its keyboard layouts differently but I can't find any actual solutions to setting the layout. I've checked the default keyboard configs, locale setting and even dpkg-reconfigure. Everything is set to en_gb and it does work when on the x11 version of the same install. The keyboard layout is stuck on the console as well. The moment I log in to the Wayland DE it switches the layout.

Only change I've made is updating the kernel to the latest version, but otherwise it's just the regular Wayland version of 21.3 Cinnamon.

System:
Kernel: 6.5.0-14-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A Desktop: Cinnamon 6.0.4 tk: GTK 3.24.33
wm: muffin vt: 8 dm: LightDM 1.30.0 Distro: Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia base: Ubuntu 22.04 jammy

I've not included my hardware information since there's a lot, and honestly the rest of it is working. It's just this one weird issue with keyboard layout.
Last edited by SMG on Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Moved from Beginner Questions to Other Topics.
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SMG
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by SMG »

LazyWings wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 9:53 pmI'm testing out the Wayland version and whenever I go in it seems to set my keyboard layout to US instead of GB which is the correct one for me. There is no option to change keyboard layout in the keyboard setting GUI. I've been researching this for a while and the only answer I get is that Wayland does its keyboard layouts differently but I can't find any actual solutions to setting the layout. I've checked the default keyboard configs, locale setting and even dpkg-reconfigure. Everything is set to en_gb and it does work when on the x11 version of the same install. The keyboard layout is stuck on the console as well. The moment I log in to the Wayland DE it switches the layout.
Welcome to the forum, LazyWings.

Wayland is experimental. It is in alpha stage. That means you should expect lots of parts to not work. The current list of issues can be found on GitHub linuxmint / wayland and there are already several related to keyboards.

If you went into Wayland and you want to return to X Server, then reboot for everything to work properly. Otherwise you will have problems.
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LazyWings
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by LazyWings »

Thanks - that makes sense and I was expecting things to not work - didn't expect Keyboard layout to be the one haha!

I guess part of this is a learning experience too so if possible could you help explain a bit more about how it works? What is it that makes Wayland struggle with different keyboard layouts, and why is it linked to the DE? Is there a reason it also affects the terminal? Or does Mint override the terminal layout in some way? Redirecting me somewhere that explains the difference between the display servers in more detail is fine too!
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SMG
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by SMG »

LazyWings wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:23 pmThanks - that makes sense and I was expecting things to not work - didn't expect Keyboard layout to be the one haha!
I will be moving your topic to our new Cinnamon on Wayland forum after I post this.
LazyWings wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:23 pmI guess part of this is a learning experience too so if possible could you help explain a bit more about how it works? What is it that makes Wayland struggle with different keyboard layouts, and why is it linked to the DE? Is there a reason it also affects the terminal? Or does Mint override the terminal layout in some way? Redirecting me somewhere that explains the difference between the display servers in more detail is fine too!
We're all learning. :)

Wayland is not a direct replacement for X Server in the sense that X Server currently handles much more functionality for the desktop than Wayland does. Wayland is a protocol and it only handles certain functionality. That means when switching from using X Server to Wayland, code must be re-written to handle those parts which Wayland does not do that X Server used to do. Something has to pick up the processes that Wayland does not do. That takes time and is one reason Wayland has taken so long to be adopted. Those "other parts" which used to be handle by X Server might now be handled differently in each separate DE depending upon how the rest of the DE was designed.
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LazyWings
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by LazyWings »

Thanks so much - that's really helpful! So essentially that means that different DEs can take completely different approaches to various things when using Wayland instead. Makes me wonder what other things X server usually handles and how. A rabbit hole to dig into...
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by MadWolf »

SMG wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:08 am
Wayland is not a direct replacement for X Server in the sense that X Server currently handles much more functionality for the desktop than Wayland does. Wayland is a protocol and it only handles certain functionality. That means when switching from using X Server to Wayland, code must be re-written to handle those parts which Wayland does not do that X Server used to do. Something has to pick up the processes that Wayland does not do. That takes time and is one reason Wayland has taken so long to be adopted. Those "other parts" which used to be handle by X Server might now be handled differently in each separate DE depending upon how the rest of the DE was designed.
i do not think that is the problem why Wayland is taking a long time to develop have a look look at https://www.youtube.com/@BrodieRobertson/videos

is it just me or is the \ key next to the z key not working i have have a UK keyboard
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by SMG »

MadWolf wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 4:30 pmi do not think that is the problem why Wayland is taking a long time to develop have a look look at https://www.youtube.com/@BrodieRobertson/videos
Pointing to someone's youtube channel rather than a specific video just makes it look like you are advertising for that person. He's a random vlogger.

If you are going to say you don't think that is the problem, then tell us what you think the problem is.

Wayland is a communication protocol which means it a set of standards against which someone can write code that is wayland compliant. Wayland is not code.
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by MadWolf »

SMG wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 9:30 pm
MadWolf wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 4:30 pmi do not think that is the problem why Wayland is taking a long time to develop have a look look at https://www.youtube.com/@BrodieRobertson/videos
Pointing to someone's youtube channel rather than a specific video just makes it look like you are advertising for that person. He's a random vlogger.

If you are going to say you don't think that is the problem, then tell us what you think the problem is.

Wayland is a communication protocol which means it a set of standards against which someone can write code that is wayland compliant. Wayland is not code.
hi the problem is if you can not get standards agreed on or you almost get a standards agreed then it get blocked
https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/101 ... 1779246866
stenzek
We're sick of getting blamed for bugs in wayland compositors, while the various committees sit around arguing with each other, finally decide on standard ways of doing things after half a decade, then GNOME ruins it all by refusing to implement it.
https://youtu.be/TDB8oq6uGgA?feature=shared&t=644
Brodie has a lot of videos talking about the problems with Wayland

Gaslighting Wayland Devs To Fix Multi Window Apps
https://youtu.be/7ju6tnep-pU
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Re: Cinnamon 21,3 Wayland change keyboard layout

Post by SMG »

MadWolf wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:25 am hi the problem is if you can not get standards agreed on or you almost get a standards agreed then it get blocked
https://github.com/PCSX2/pcsx2/pull/101 ... 1779246866
stenzek
We're sick of getting blamed for bugs in wayland compositors, while the various committees sit around arguing with each other, finally decide on standard ways of doing things after half a decade, then GNOME ruins it all by refusing to implement it.
No, that is not the problem.

Wayland protocol was released in 2008. That post is from 2023. The Wayland protocol only covers part of what X11 is currently doing which means it is not a drop-in replacement for X11 which is why it has taken so much time to be accepted. That is a lot of work by many people needed to make the change. Inertia happens when the workload is huge. That even happens with proprietary software.

The fact some DE developers may not be following the code is a completely different issue. I suggest you widen your resources beyond your apparent favorite vlogger.
MadWolf wrote: Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:25 amBrodie has a lot of videos talking about the problems with Wayland
That's because it's now the hot new topic and he's trying to increase his youtube account followers. I don't have the time to watch his videos. He takes FOREVER to get to the point when he isn't just reading someone else's blog. That is not a good use of my time.
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