Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

Alright, so after forcing it to boot up incorrectly, Xorg doesn't load anything during the incorrect boot.

Xorg.1.log* appears to be from an older bootup earlier today. Just the Xorg.0 files were touched this time, but the Xorg.0.log.old file is empty.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

cjames wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:42 pm Alright, so after forcing it to boot up incorrectly, Xorg doesn't load anything during the incorrect boot.

Xorg.1.log* appears to be from an older bootup earlier today. Just the Xorg.0 files were touched this time, but the Xorg.0.log.old file is empty.
What's in Xorg.0? Is it empty too?
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

No, but it's got the "recovery" marker at the top and appears to be from the boot I did in recovery mode. I can post regardless, if you want.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

cjames wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:51 pm No, but it's got the "recovery" marker at the top and appears to be from the boot I did in recovery mode. I can post regardless, if you want.
No, that's okay.

I'm off to bed now but will see if I can think of something tomorrow.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

I flashed the BIOS. It didn't change anything.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

cjames wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 9:10 pmHere's the termbin from Xorg.1.log.old: https://termbin.com/yhvu

Interestingly, I've got two xorg log files, so two xorg servers get started. Xorg.0.log.old is empty.
I did a search on the reason for an Xorg.1.log in addition to an Xorg.0.log and what I found was someone who signed on as different user and that was why they had both.

Do you still have those files that we could check the timestamps on them?

Are you running any VMs in Windows that might have pass-through GPUs? (Just following up on one of the messages in the output from journalctl.)
cjames wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:08 pm I flashed the BIOS. It didn't change anything.
The GPU is working in Windows, correct?
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

Yes, the GPU is working in windows.

I probably don't have those files, as I'll have to boot up again to get access to them. What would you like to check, though? I can replicate the failure to bootup all over again.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

cjames wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:41 pmI probably don't have those files, as I'll have to boot up again to get access to them. What would you like to check, though? I can replicate the failure to bootup all over again.
It might be time to create another install usb. Download an ISO from a different mirror this time. See if you can boot normally to get to a live session.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

Haha, I was thinking that. I'll do that tonight and report back.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

Alright, I've attempted to install with Mint Cinnamon 21.3, Ubuntu 23.10, and Fedora Workstation 39.

None of these would boot normally. Ubuntu and Cinnamon got to the desktop, displayed for a second, and then turned off (so the identical experience of booting normally with current Mint XFCE). I think the Fedora stick wasn't don't correctly, so I might try that again. If that doesn't work, I'm at the point where I'm just going to use Ubuntu WSL for a while.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

cjames wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:52 pm Alright, I've attempted to install with Mint Cinnamon 21.3, Ubuntu 23.10, and Fedora Workstation 39.

None of these would boot normally. Ubuntu and Cinnamon got to the desktop, displayed for a second, and then turned off (so the identical experience of booting normally with current Mint XFCE).
If you are getting to the desktop, then you are getting further than what you were with Mint Xfce where you said you were only getting to the LM logo (which is not making it to the desktop).

I did a search on this forum for X470 GAMING PLUS MAX and others are running LM 21 versions although I didn't see any with the exact CPU/GPU combination you have. There were older ones with people running LM20.3. Maybe try LM20.3?

The other idea is to try using the amdgpu driver. Your GPU is GCN2.x which means the default is to use the radeon driver, but it was the second generation to have experimental support for the amdgpu driver. To enable that support, one adds kernel parameters. You can use the following information How to add a kernel parameter to temporarily or permanently add the parameters. When you add them temporarily, they are only added for that current boot cycle, so if, for any reason, they seem to cause issues or do not work, all you need to do is reboot to clear them. If you need more details than that topic provides, just let us know.

There are two parameters with a space between them.

Code: Select all

radeon.cik_support=0 amdgpu.cik_support=1
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

I wonder if I'm running into multiple different failures modes.

So, after activating the amdgpu driver, I got some slightly different behavior. LM booted up, made it to the login screen, and then it was like the bottom half of the screen started drooping. At a certain point down the screen, that row of pixels got duplicated all the way down the screen.

ASCII art for demonstration:

--**--**--** -
**--**--**-- |
--**--**--** |
**--**--**-- |
--**--**--** - <-- Correct
--**--**--** - <-- Starts glitching and duplicates the previous row of pixels all the way down
--**--**--** |
--**--**--** |
--**--**--** -

After doing this for 1-3 seconds, the screen, keyboard, and mouse shut off and I have to hold the power button to force it to turn off.

Honestly, this feels like the screen isn't reading the frames being sent to it correctly or something like that. I'd have to order a new screen to test, which I can't do right now. I'll look into getting a replacement HDMI cord, too, as this one's at least 8 years old.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

cjames wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:26 am I wonder if I'm running into multiple different failures modes.
I'm wondering that as well. There were quite a few people posting with other issues (wifi, for example) with that motherboard, but nothing which seemed similar to this.
cjames wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:26 amAfter doing this for 1-3 seconds, the screen, keyboard, and mouse shut off and I have to hold the power button to force it to turn off.
This power shutoff seems like it may be key to the source of the problem, but I don't know enough about your hardware to make a suggestion. Is the PSU (power supply unit) an older one? I wonder if maybe it no longer has enough ooomph for the GPU?

However, a "droopy" image is at least something different than what you have been getting. :mrgreen:
cjames wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:26 amHonestly, this feels like the screen isn't reading the frames being sent to it correctly or something like that. I'd have to order a new screen to test, which I can't do right now. I'll look into getting a replacement HDMI cord, too, as this one's at least 8 years old.
Maybe you can borrow a monitor from a friend or relative for a test?
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

The power supply is definitely fine. I went through that issue a couple years ago.

Your comment about the motherboard sounds relevant. I'm going to take a step back from this until I can figure out a way to swap out hardware. I may take it to a shop to see if they can get this working at some point, but for now I think I've exhausted my options.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by Gcandy77 »

Hello again and sorry for the last post .. I auto assumed you were already trying to use the AMDGPU driver when I saw the black screen headline :roll:

I will add that even tho the 390 is GCN 2.0 .. It still uses the same driver that the 290 does n unfortunately that is the "AMDGPU-pro driver". This is why I recommended not bothering with the latest kernel as it always breaks n then gets fixed(updated)1-2 years later n then broken again upon the latest kernel release and so on. Take a read ..
here https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/ ... 0_drivers/
& here https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/ ... pu/91013/8
& here https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comm ... er_r9_290/
& here https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=277250

I will advise that I have had success if you do chose to use AMDGPU in the future with manjaro in the past using the latest kernel tho, idk why it worked on arch n not debian using the same parameters suggested in the arch wiki, but I know it worked.

Anyhow onto your problem n to keep SMG from having another heart attack I stick with a few suggestions that they can review 1st :)

My 1st thought was - Have you tried booting into linux using the onboard HDMI(if you have one) .. Rather than your GPU? If it still does the same thing n turns off everything .. You can rule out the GPU being the issue entirely :)

My 2nd thought - would be to try and boot into a live environment (to rule out any poss system updates that could be shagging your setup) .. Im not taking a dump on Mint here as I have been using it happily for over a years myself - But I would suggest to try using PopOs & Manjaro as they have slightly different boot parameters to the usual ubuntu/mint (((From what I have read on the net!!!!!))) << Might need SMG to advise on that one :D

My 3rd thought would be - Are you dual booting windows on the "Same" SSD? ... If your a linux bod n know how to alter things without breaking stuff, this prob isnt an issue .. If your a noob n do this .. Ive found that sometimes re-installing Os`s over n over shags the boot drive n leads to odd results that make sod all sense. There is probably a better solution to this than mine ... But I just install the Os`s on different drives now n havent had any issues for years :)

Hope it helps

p.s - Thx SMG for the correction you provided b4 ... "One" is always trying to learn :wink:
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

Thanks for this context and advice. I'll try without the GPU first and report back. It'd be nice if I just have to find the right driver.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

Gcandy77 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:42 amI will add that even tho the 390 is GCN 2.0 .. It still uses the same driver that the 290 does n unfortunately that is the "AMDGPU-pro driver".
No, they do not use the amdgpu-pro driver. "Pro" means proprietary and there are no proprietary drivers in the kernel. The amdgpu driver is a general name that is used by all newer AMD GPUs, but the functionality used by each individual GPU is not the same. The functionality of the amdgpu used depends on the architecture of the GPU so if the architecture is different then they are not using the exact same functionality of the driver. The driver forks to use different code for different GPUs even though "the driver" has the same name.
Gcandy77 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:42 am This is why I recommended not bothering with the latest kernel as it always breaks n then gets fixed(updated)1-2 years later n then broken again upon the latest kernel release and so on. Take a read ..
here https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/ ... /rainbows/
& here https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/ ... pu/91013/8
& here https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comm ... er_r9_290/
& here https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=277250
None of that applies to this situation. Linux Mint does not use mainline kernels.
Gcandy77 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:42 amI will advise that I have had success if you do chose to use AMDGPU in the future with manjaro in the past using the latest kernel tho, idk why it worked on arch n not debian using the same parameters suggested in the arch wiki, but I know it worked.
Please stay focused on Linux Mint with your advice on this forum. This forum is for providing advice on Linux Mint installs only.
Gcandy77 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:42 amMy 1st thought was - Have you tried booting into linux using the onboard HDMI(if you have one) .. Rather than your GPU? If it still does the same thing n turns off everything .. You can rule out the GPU being the issue entirely :)
Please review the System Information already provided. An AMD Ryzen 5 1600 does not have an onboard GPU so this is not an option.
Gcandy77 wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 11:42 amMy 2nd thought - would be to try and boot into a live environment (to rule out any poss system updates that could be shagging your setup) .. Im not taking a dump on Mint here as I have been using it happily for over a years myself - But I would suggest to try using PopOs & Manjaro as they have slightly different boot parameters to the usual ubuntu/mint (((From what I have read on the net!!!!!))) << Might need SMG to advise on that one :D
PopOS is based on Ubuntu.

I have no idea what you read, but I am not aware of any different boot parameters with regards to those distributions. The radeon driver settings are set in the kernel so only if the kernel is different might there (notice I said "might") be a difference.
cjames wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 1:20 pm Thanks for this context and advice.
Please read my corrections to the information just provided.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by cjames »

Thanks for commenting. I guess I'm back to the mobo being the most likely culprit.
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by Gcandy77 »

"Please read my corrections to the information just provided."

Well I had my ass handed to me again :oops:

Are you absolutely sure that the 290/390 doesnt use the AMDGPU-PRO drivers. I ask this, cos as you mention Mint runs differently + I have been told by AMD themselves (via email) that it does .. I was directed here https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/relea ... -lin-16-40by them & also by the devs on PopOs and also Manjaro?? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AMDGPU_PRO ... When I attempted the arch route .. it worked??
I was advised by "other distro forums" that in order to run opengl 4.5 (could be 4.6, I forget) in order to run "Vulkan" I needed this driver??? For 3 years I was advised this by a number of different people :|

Also .. There is mass confusion whether the 290 is gcn 1 or 2 .. You say 1 .. other posts Ive been involved with same the same as you .. yet official places like this https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/r ... -290.c2397 & this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_200_series say the opposite .. leading to a mindset for me of " Who do you trust" :roll:

Saying all that tho .. I found this post that you contributed on that suggests different :shock: viewtopic.php?t=389454 (I cant help wondering if my next post will be " I have a black screen on boot" :lol: as I have had this so many times after changing from radeon .. ((Any chance you could direct me to the driver that they used so I can have a read?? :) )


Back to this dudes issue tho ...

I cant help think this is "NOT" a HW issue as it works fine in windows as you say?

The only time I have ever had issues with linux booting has been -

1 - When Ive changed the boot parameters myself
2 - When Ive installed to the same drive as windows & its mucked the boot sectors up
3 - When Ive installed a copy of linux that was corrupted
4 - When I used PopOs and the 1st system update via the pop-shop .. broke it xD ... I Leant to update via terminal when using this OS (not recommending it btw!!)
5 - When I blindly followed a guide and did something stupid :oops:

You must know "someone" that has a pc that could help you resolve ure issues ... I would ...

1 - Take the usb drive your using atm and see if you can get it to boot on another machine ... You could be using a drive that has failing sectors n thus corrupts slightly - If it works on theirs .. you can rule out the USB thumb drive as the issue. At this point you might want to try using a different usb on your own PC to install mint just in case ure usb socket has a fault. if it doesnt work .. Get a new thumb drive and try again. :D

2 - If you want to rule out the GPU being an issue tho (I hope I looked this up correctly and your mobo has a usb-c port :?: ) but you could try one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/usb-c-hdmi/s?k=usb+c+to+hdmi ... Afaik .. your usb-c supports something called "DP alt mode" and you can use this device ... Im a little unsure on that tho as on this site, some people say it doesnt and others say it does https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/thre ... ty.295394/ .. Maybe SMG can comment on this one :D

3 - I would still recommend installing the Os`s on different drive if you can help it (just google dual-booted windows with linux issues and you will see all the crap that noobs go thru). Even better if you can disconnect the window SSD when installing mint & then run the Os-prober (SMG will have to fill this in if they dont hand my ass to me again as, I forget how to do this)

And a wildcard option that SMG will deffo have to comment on as idk if its even possible??? - Just in case this is a software issue .. A little while ago I had this issue on boot myself viewtopic.php?t=416197 where the only way I could get my desktop to show would be to run "Startx" from the terminal. I was wondering ... Would there be a way that cjames could boot without the GUI or the "startx" program running, just to see if they could run the fundamental linux system that doesnt require the GPU driver being used?? ... My thought behind this would be if they can, then again it would point towards an issue with display driver being used.

The only time Ive ever had an issue booting with radeon on this card is when I have specifically been trying to get it to use the AMDGPU or the AMDGPU-pro drivers ... I cant remember the exact details, but if I black-listed the radeon drivers and tried to force it to use the amdgpu ones .. Id always get the screen switching off .. not the blinking cursor one.

I will add tho, that Ive never had an issue live booting (which defaults with the Radeon driver afaik??) ... Which is why I think its imperative that you try the thumbs drive ure using to install Mint ... On a different pc to rule out a corrupted drive/install. :)

Edit .. I nearly forgot to mention this ... The 290/390 & DPM. It could be that the power saving parameter is disabled. I have been advised that on newer cards this is turned on by default .. but for our older cards .. You have to turn it on manually (SMG please comment :D )

Considering "everything" just turns off .. this could be the issue. Have a read of this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver n llok at the power management section and and this https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ATI and look at section 7 (Powersaving)
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Re: Booting normally results in black screen, even after upgrading kernel

Post by SMG »

Gcandy77 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:06 pmAre you absolutely sure that the 290/390 doesnt use the AMDGPU-PRO drivers. I ask this, cos as you mention Mint runs differently + I have been told by AMD themselves (via email) that it does .. I was directed here https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/relea ... -lin-16-40by them & also by the devs on PopOs and also Manjaro?? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AMDGPU_PRO ... When I attempted the arch route .. it worked??
I was advised by "other distro forums" that in order to run opengl 4.5 (could be 4.6, I forget) in order to run "Vulkan" I needed this driver??? For 3 years I was advised this by a number of different people :|
There are many different parts to a graphics driver. What is need to run the operating system and what is needed to run specialized software are not the same.

In order to run the operating system, the PRO driver is not needed. The PRO driver consists of the open-source display drive and OpenGL renderer (which are already included in the Linux kernel) while the PRO part of the driver adds components for vulkan and ROCm (OpenCL). The ArchLinux link you provided clearly states that. Most people do not need the pro parts. If you are running specialized games or software such as Blender, then you would need the proprietary components. If you are just running an operating system and most software, you do not need the proprietary components. The PRO driver is only available from the AMD website.
Gcandy77 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:06 pmAlso .. There is mass confusion whether the 290 is gcn 1 or 2 .. You say 1 .. other posts Ive been involved with same the same as you .. yet official places like this https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/r ... -290.c2397 & this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_200_series say the opposite .. leading to a mindset for me of " Who do you trust" :roll:
The drivers are not massively confused. When the system boots, the driver checks the hardware components and loads the appropriate driver and renderer for the GPU it finds. Check inxi output to see what your hardware loads and then compare that to what is listed with regards to whether it is GCN 1 or 2.
Gcandy77 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:06 pmSaying all that tho .. I found this post that you contributed on that suggests different :shock: viewtopic.php?t=389454 (I cant help wondering if my next post will be " I have a black screen on boot" :lol: as I have had this so many times after changing from radeon .. ((Any chance you could direct me to the driver that they used so I can have a read?? :) )
They used the driver that is in the Linux kernel. That is what v. kernel means in the inxi output. They did not add any kernel parameter to get the information you see in the first post. That is what normally loads.
Gcandy77 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:06 pm 2 - If you want to rule out the GPU being an issue tho (I hope I looked this up correctly and your mobo has a usb-c port :?: ) but you could try one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/usb-c-hdmi/s?k=usb+c+to+hdmi ... Afaik .. your usb-c supports something called "DP alt mode" and you can use this device ... Im a little unsure on that tho as on this site, some people say it doesnt and others say it does https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/thre ... ty.295394/ .. Maybe SMG can comment on this one :D
I will again refer you to the system information the OP posted. They have a AMD Ryzen 5 1600 which is several generations older than the ones discussed in the link you provided.

Hardware matters. Please check to see what someone has before making recommendations.
Gcandy77 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:06 pmAnd a wildcard option that SMG will deffo have to comment on as idk if its even possible??? - Just in case this is a software issue ..
I have been participating in this topic since it started. If you want to know what I think is applicable to this situation then read the entire topic. There is no reason to believe your issue in the other topic has any relevance at all to this one.
Gcandy77 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:06 pm...I was wondering ... Would there be a way that cjames could boot without the GUI or the "startx" program running, just to see if they could run the fundamental linux system that doesnt require the GPU driver being used?? ... My thought behind this would be if they can, then again it would point towards an issue with display driver being used.
This was already done. The OP already booted with nomodeset which prevents the graphics driver from loading. In fact when one uses it, there is a line in the logs specifically saying the AMD driver will not be loaded because that is used.
Gcandy77 wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:06 pmEdit .. I nearly forgot to mention this ... The 290/390 & DPM. It could be that the power saving parameter is disabled. I have been advised that on newer cards this is turned on by default .. but for our older cards .. You have to turn it on manually (SMG please comment :D )
Whether or not that setting is turned on by default depends on the kernel being used. That default has changed over time as the defaults for the driver have changed over time.
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