Nick_Djinn wrote:I have my own relationship with 'God' or whatever you want to call whats out there or 'in there', and I am not going to be told that my morality is wrong or that Im not right with God because I dont share someones Republican conservative authoritarian positions. Anyone can do that. Osama Bin Ladden can do it too. One branch of Christianity has demonized the Christians of another, just so they could go to war and profit from the spoils....so forgive me if I take any claims of moral superiority with a grain of salt.
People who are afraid of change dont like to see their world view threatened by new ideas, or even old ideas that are new to them. If the government tells them that God wants them to invade Iraq or kill Palestinians (Most Christians in the region are Palestinians) they want to march off to kill people with the moral conviction that God is on their side.....so an alternative viewpoint that maybe if there is a God he doesnt really want you to kill all those foreigners is more of a threat than someone who doesnt want to fight for more personal reasons, because at least it doesnt upset the foundations of their wrong ideas.....and the more flimsy someones philosophy is, the more they feel threatened by such ideas.
Nick...You just do not get it...I am not judging your morality, it is pretty obvious to me that some of it is badly wrong, however, there is a side of you that wants equality for everyone (or at least you THINK you do) and that is not necessarily wrong...But that is only MY opinion. I do not care what your politics are. I am also not suggesting whether you are right or wrong with God, only you and God know that. What does government even have to do with God? God does not want you to kill anyone, that should be fairly obvious to anyone with even a child's knowledge of the Bible. But...The Bible also specifies between killing and murder and also permits killing for justice. (Gen 9:6). How about killing for your country? I do not know, the New Testament is not specific here. My belief is that if you are killing armed combatants who are trying to kill you then you have the right. How about dropping bombs on innocents? I could not stomach that, but I do not judge those who have had to in time of war. But I am under no illusions that ANY killing is done for God! If God wants someone dead do you not think He could do it? Lol...But what does ANY of that have to do with this subject? You are trying to condemn people's morals but most Christians simply do not feel the things you ascribe to them. This is just MY opinion, but I think most of your political issues are caused by a lack of understanding of how the real world works. You like to lump people into stereotypical groups; ie Christians are immoral, businesses are greedy...But this is far removed from reality. You are knowledgeable, but you lack experience.
Do I think that people are 'entitled' or 'owed' the privilege of proprietary computer software that they didnt pay for? No. It is not a basic human right, unless access to this software is necessary for survival....It arguably can be an economic necessity in some instances, but there are often free alternatives...and some people still cant see the need for a user friendly free alternative and still tell people to go back to windows, which costs money....
If something is needed for survival does it become a basic human right?
That isnt what I was arguing here. (I think that people who in engage in logical fallacies in debate are not necessarily as dishonest as they come off.....I think all the blind assumptions are the result of faulty logic skills and a tendency to believe your own imagination. )
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Piracy is a DIFFERENT crime from theft, and while that is not a legal basis for justifying copyright infringement, there may be some moral considerations outside of legality......Would I feel justified in walking into someones home because they keep the doors unlocked? No. Not only is there a risk but I wouldnt steal from a fellow working class human being. Thats not right, unless their loss would be trivial and I needed something for survival. I dont need windows to live when I have linux.
Call it what you want, but stealing is theft. No matter if you are stealing time, an idea, or physical property. It is theft. I have proven this by definition. You can throw all the legalese at it that you like but in the end it is just semantics. You are taking what does not belong to you. End of argument.
Let me tell you a different example.....You are walking down the road when your car broke down in the middle of a giant national forest. You have been walking so long as you have no food. You probably dont DIE immediately if you dont eat, but you are very low blood sugar and you are suffering from the long walk....and you come across a little enclave of privately owned residences......and down on the end of the block you find one who has a giant orchard, and the apples on the very last row are just hanging off the side of the fence...you dont even have to trespass to get them. Just pick and apple as you are walking by that is hanging off their tree into the domain of public property, but its attached to a privately owned tree......apples are just falling to the ground, rotting from not being picked. The farmer will NOT have fewer apples if you pick some, because they are going to waste anyway, since he obviously couldnt sell enough to this sleepy town and doesnt seem interested in exporting them (that part isnt a direct metaphor)....the point is that its very reasonable to assume that he wont miss them.....and you dont have your wallet on you to pay for any.
True. But...It is still theft. The farmer OWNS those apples, he has a legal right to do whatever he wants with them. If he chooses to let them rot that is his business. You are trying to create a moral argument where none exists. Is it relevant that you did not have to trespass to get at the apples or that the farmer is just letting them fall to the ground to rot? NO!!! You are trying to justify your theft with lame excuses, just like with the piracy issue! The only fact that matters is the apples belong to the farmer and you are stealing them.
Be honest. Would you pick the apples to help you walk back to civilization to get help for your broken down car?
Honestly? Sure! But the proper thing to do would be to knock on the farmer's door and ask permission. Maybe even pay him a couple bucks. But yeah, I live in Florida and have stolen my fair share of oranges off of private trees. Unless you get caught with a 5 Gal bucket it really is a non-issue. I do not know of a single case where a person was prosecuted for this, or a grove owner that would not permit you an orange off the tree is you but ask.
And then you have to consider that a corporation is not REALLY a person, even though they are given the rights of a person. A corporation is a soulless amoral entity that is typically driven by greed, unless its some kind of non profit or egalitarian co-op. Its not the same as breaking into a families house and stealing their dinner.
By saying its not the same I am not saying we are entitled to it, depending on the circumstances. I am only saying that its not the same. It could still be wrong, but it should be judged differently.
Why? Because you falsely ascribe greed to corporations? Not saying that there are not a few who are greedy, but you cannot justify a blanket statement like that. Would you like a raise at work? Then YOU are greedy.
Theft is theft. If you want to be a lawyer and ascribe varying degrees according to the value of the property or damage to the owner then great...Whatever...I do not concern myself with those issues.