Home Network w/o Internet?? SOLVED

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juicer
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Home Network w/o Internet?? SOLVED

Post by juicer »

Linux Mint9
Dell laptop
2Wire DSL Wireless Modem wired to --> Netgear FM114P Wireless Firewall/Print Server router
OK I've muddled through setting up printer and internet and can see all of my other xp/vista machines but "Network" only works when connected to the internet.
Is this normal?
Do I have the option of accessing the computers without being connected to the internet?
Last edited by juicer on Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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altair4
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by altair4 »

You sure are having problems with your network. Unfortunately it seems you're stuck with me again - at least until someone else comes along.
I've muddled through setting up printer and internet and can see all of my other xp/vista machines but "Network" only works when connected to the internet.
Is this normal?
No.

There's something in networking called Netbios Name Resolution that translates machine name to ip address. Something is discombobulating that process. Rather than try to mess with the networking component of this ( which might be the ultimate solution ) maybe we can force samba to circumvent the problem.

Please post the output of the following commands:

Code: Select all

testparm -s

Code: Select all

cat /etc/resolv.conf
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.

juicer
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by juicer »

Altair4 -- I knew I should have signed up for the monthly plan ;-)
Is it relevant that the 172.16.0.1 ip gateway is the 2-wire wireless dsl modem and there is nothing about the Netgear wireless firewall/print server/router that is downstream. I unchecked auto-connect for the 2Wire wireless thinking it was conflicting. At times, when I click on network tray icon, I have seen both the wired and wireless connected at the same time. Should MAC addresses be specified?
Don't let me mislead you with my ramblings for I am lost.

jim@jim-laptop ~ $ testparm -s
Load smb config files from /etc/samba/smb.conf
rlimit_max: rlimit_max (1024) below minimum Windows limit (16384)
Processing section "[printers]"
Processing section "[print$]"
Loaded services file OK.
Server role: ROLE_STANDALONE
[global]
workgroup = MSHOME
server string = %h server (Samba, Ubuntu)
map to guest = Bad User
obey pam restrictions = Yes
pam password change = Yes
passwd program = /usr/bin/passwd %u
passwd chat = *Enter\snew\s*\spassword:* %n\n *Retype\snew\s*\spassword:* %n\n *password\supdated\ssuccessfully* .
unix password sync = Yes
syslog = 0
log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m
max log size = 1000
dns proxy = No
usershare allow guests = Yes
panic action = /usr/share/samba/panic-action %d

[printers]
comment = All Printers
path = /var/spool/samba
create mask = 0700
printable = Yes
browseable = No
browsable = No

[print$]
comment = Printer Drivers
path = /var/lib/samba/printers
jim@jim-laptop ~ $ cat /etc/resolv.conf
# Generated by NetworkManager
domain gateway.2wire.net
search gateway.2wire.net
nameserver 172.16.0.1
jim@jim-laptop ~ $
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altair4
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by altair4 »

I can usually muddle through most samba problems but my knowledge of networking is embarrassingly shallow.

I read your original post and something just flew right over my head:
2Wire DSL Wireless Modem wired to --> Netgear FM114P Wireless Firewall/Print Server router
The 2Wire is more than a modem it's also a router. So you have a router attached to a router. I have a somewhat similar configuration:
DSL Modem --> Wired Router --> Wireless Router.
The difference may be that my Wireless Router is configured as a Wireless Access Point, so it's acting as an extension of the wired router. As such the only entry in all my machines are for nameserver and it is the ip address of the Wired Router.

Some of your machines appear to be connecting to the 2wire and some are connecting to the Netgear which may be in a different subnet than the 2wire. Someone with more networking knowledge is going to have to confirm this but I believe that you need to convert one of the routers to become a Wireless Access Point - I would guess the Netgear.
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juicer
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by juicer »

OK, I'll just stand here and look pathetic until some passing Good Samaritan lends me a hand.
Funny thing is that All 4 of the PCs (XP and Vista) see the Linux machine as well as each other. It's just the Linux that appears lost.
I looked at the instructions for converting the router to an access point and immediately lost consciousness.
Thanks for your Help A-4.
Water invented man as a means of transportation.

talsadus
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by talsadus »

How many machines is connected directly to the modem and
how many machines connected directly to the Netgear, may I ask?

If your linux is the only one on the modem, try setting in the routing feature of
your modem, by routing all the local address to the the address of the netgear
Like if your local address is 192.168.1.123 and netmask is 255.255.255.0 and
the address of the netgear is 192.168.1.253, you would set the destination as
192.168.1.0, netmask 255.255.255.0 and the gateway as 192.168.1.253

Well, that's my attempt to help :)

Erinsfan

Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by Erinsfan »

Are all the computers plugged into the hub on the router or connected to it wirelessly? What IP addresses are they all using. I take it the workgroup is MSHOME on all the PCs?

Erin

juicer
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by juicer »

Network... The Comes and Goes Woes
The setup:
2Wire 1000 Home Portal DSL Wireless Modem (wired and wireless) IP 172.xxx ---> wired to Netgear ProSafe Wireless Firewall/Print Server FM114P IP 192.xxx (HP Laserjet 6p to parallel port prints well from all computers including Linux Mint9) ---> various pc (xp and vista) wired to Netgear Server and then the Netgear is extended to a US Robotics router for more wired access points for more macs and pcs.
Macs see everyone on the network.
Pcs see all pcs and macs and linux as well.
Linux only sees self and macs BUT sometimes it sees the pcs??
1. Is it OK to name all the machines WORKGROUP instead of MSHOME?
2. Is it OK to leave the Macs workgroup blank or must I enter WORKGROUP? Right now one Mac workgroup is blank and the other WORKGROUP
3. How exactly do I change the workgroup name on Linux Mint9?
Water invented man as a means of transportation.

juicer
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by juicer »

I just noticed that the ifconfig looks odd? Every time I delete the eth1 which is connecting to the 2Wire Modem, another one comes up. How can I force Linux to use eth0? Also is there any indication in this report where my wireless connection might be heading? I have unchecked the automatic connect for the wireless connection but I am stil getting no networks except the local machine, wired or wireless.
BTW, I have renamed everything "workgroup". My children resisted at first but I explained about the Linux cause.

jim@jim-laptop ~ $ ifconfig
eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:0f:1f:fd:62:b5
inet addr:192.168.0.5 Bcast:192.168.0.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::20f:1fff:fefd:62b5/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1492 Metric:1
RX packets:64 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:119 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:22615 (22.6 KB) TX bytes:16203 (16.2 KB)
Interrupt:11

eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:0e:35:5c:d0:8b
inet addr:172.16.1.37 Bcast:172.16.255.255 Mask:255.255.0.0
inet6 addr: fe80::20e:35ff:fe5c:d08b/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:28 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:53 errors:0 dropped:4 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:4948 (4.9 KB) TX bytes:9095 (9.0 KB)
Interrupt:5 Base address:0xa000 Memory:fcfee000-fcfeefff

lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:95 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:95 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:8022 (8.0 KB) TX bytes:8022 (8.0 KB)

jim@jim-laptop ~ $
Just had a TaDa moment. Wired the Linux machine to the US Robotics router, downstream of the Netgear Wireless Print Server Firewall and the ip for eth1 is now 192.xxx instead of the 172.xxx above which was from the 2Wire wireless modem.
Why do all of the other children play nice but little Linux can't get along with Netgear?
Water invented man as a means of transportation.

talsadus
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by talsadus »

to change workgroup name

Code: Select all

sudo gedit /etc/samba/smb.conf
[global]

## Browsing/Identification ###

# Change this to the workgroup/NT-domain name your Samba server will part of
workgroup = WORKGROUP
netbios name = computername

juicer
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by juicer »

talsadus wrote:to change workgroup name

Code: Select all

sudo gedit /etc/samba/smb.conf
[global]

## Browsing/Identification ###

# Change this to the workgroup/NT-domain name your Samba server will part of
workgroup = WORKGROUP
netbios name = computername
Followed instructions exactly, Was I supposed to put netbios name directly below workgroup as printed?
That;s what I did but still no good.
Thanks for the command.
Water invented man as a means of transportation.

talsadus
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by talsadus »

What is the current problem at the moment?

Can the linux machine always see the windows machine using ip address?
For example, open nautilus click Go -> Location
Type in smb://192.168.0.120/
where 192.168.0.120 should be replace with ip of each of your windows machine

altair4
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by altair4 »

talsadus wrote:What is the current problem at the moment?
Maybe I'm thinking about this incorrectly but the problem seems to be that he's got three routers. 2Wire is a router, netgear is a router, and USRobotics is a router. At least two of those routers are creating 2 different subnets. The USRobotics may be creating a third. At any given moment I'm not exactly sure which subnet a given wireless device in his network is connecting to. It could be different every time that device is booted or where it's booted.

Linux follows a preset mechanism to resolve netbios names to ip addresses:
name resolve order = lmhosts host wins bcast
lmhosts, host, and wins are either not populated or not configured by default. That leaves "bcast" ( broadcast ) as the only way for one machine to find the other ( without resorting to direct access by ip address ). bcast doesn't work across subnets.

It would seem to me that he could:

Set up his host file with the names and ip address of all his other machines.
This would require that all machines on his network have fixed ip addresses and the the host or lmhosts files on all machines would also have to be created.

Create a WINS server
This would require that a box be designated as the WINS server, that it always be running, that it have a static ip address, and that all the other machines on the network ( Windows, Mac, and Linux ) alter the networking component of their systems to point to that WINS server.

Change the topography of the network such that the Netgear is a WAP to the 2Wire.
Then all the machines will be in the same subnet and now "bcast" can do it's thing. Well, except for the USRobotics - I'm still not sure what to do with that one. Can you have a WAP to a WAP?

More exotic remedies are things like dnsmasq I suppose.

Anywho, that's how I see it.
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talsadus
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by talsadus »

Would setting all three routers' DHCP server to provide the same range of IPs work?

EDIT
Assuming they are not exactly the same but continuous

altair4
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by altair4 »

Like I said towards the the beginning of this thread, Samba's my thing , networking isn't. The whole concept of having multiple DHCP servers in a home network is something I'm having a hard time visualizing. Even if you were to force each router to hand out ip addresses in the same range how do you prevent duplication? I honestly don't know which is why I originally suggested setting it up the way I have it: Router to Access Point. The Access Point doesn't assign ip addresses the router does.

I suppose it's possible to have a network set up with three independent routers. I'm just not smart enough to know how.
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talsadus
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by talsadus »

Like the first DHCP server gives out IP
192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.12
Second one
192.168.1.15 - 192.168.1.25
Third
192.168.1.35 - 192.168.1.45
All the same network mask
Sorry it's just a theory, I havn't tested it out yet.
I'm not sure myself that's why I'm asking if it would work.

EDIT
assuming the routers all have different address
First one 192.168.1.1
Second 192.168.1.253
Third 192.168.1.252

But yes I guess it would be better your way having only one to assign the address

Erinsfan

Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by Erinsfan »

From trying to understand the post, all the computers should be using 192.168.0.x IP addresses and a subnet of 255.255.255.0. Nothing should be using 172.x.x.x addresses except the public side of the netgear router. The gateway IP address should be the netgear router's IP address unless you are using DHCP which means the gateway, DNS servers, IP address and subnet will all be setup autmagically.

If it were I, I'd connect the modem to the outside world and the LAN side of the modem to the output of the modem.

Then connect one of the LAN sockets of the US Robotics to one of the LAN sockets of the Netgear router.

I'd switch off the DHCP etc., parts of the US Robotics router.

Connect all your computers to the spare sockets on either router EXCEPT the WAN socket on the US Robotics router.

Ensure ALL the computer's workgroups are set to the SAME name whatever that is... "WORKGROUP" is normal. (I''d use a different name like "MintRocks"!)

Reboot everything and see what happens. I agree that Linux picking up two wired addresses is odd especially on different interfaces.

Erin

juicer
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by juicer »

First, yes I can access the machines using smb://ip addresses from Linux.
Regardless of what the Linux machine is doing, all other macs and pcs operate flawlessly over the network and can see and access each other and the Linux machine (mac is wireless, pcs wired). leading me to believe that there isn't anything wrong with the series of dsl modem-router-hub that I have set up. All machines now have the same workgroup name MSHOME.
To clarify, the 2Wire DSL wireless modem (ip 172.16.0.1) is hard wired to the Netgear Wireless Firewall/Print Server (ip 192.168.0.1) which is uplinked to a 3com Hub(sorry I had wrongly identified this previously as us robotics) that I presume has no ip address.
One pc is wired to Netgear Router and one pc is wired to 3Com Hub.
I have disabled the wireless on 2Wire and both the mac iBook and the Linux are picking up Netgear wireless.
Sometimes on wireless, when I click Linux "Network" it just hangs and opens when it is dgr (damn good and ready). Then might hang again when I get to the workgroup name.
Now, I just wired Linux to Netgear and Network instantly shows iBook. public files on Linux and Windows Network on the first page, next page MSHOME and then next page all the computers including the iBook again and the Linux machine (not just the public files seen on first page) BUT "Unable to Mount" any of these entries but then maybe the files will open anyway after a long delay.
Rebooted with wired connection and first page shows all pcs, macs, Linux and Linux public files, plus Windows Network. Click on Windows Network opens to all pcs, mac and Linux machine (not public files) but again the same "Unable to Mount" with any pc, mac except after a long delay occassionally one might begrudgingly open and Linuxs more likely to be the one.
There is no crisp connection as with the macs/pcs when navigating the network.
Printer function of Netgear router works wired or wireless for all machines including Linux.
I do have other macs and pcs that I want to add to the network later but I left it simple now for diagnostic purposes.
Poor Linux seems confused. Where have I gone wrong? Is there anything I need to un/reinstall to make things right? Is there any terminal info I can post to evaluate?
I fear I have failed in rearing Linux!
Water invented man as a means of transportation.

juicer
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by juicer »

shameless bump
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DrHu
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Re: Home Network w/o Internet??

Post by DrHu »

juicer wrote:Linux Mint9 ---2Wire DSL Wireless Modem wired to --> Netgear FM114P Wireless Firewall/Print Server router
OK I've muddled through setting up printer and internet and can see all of my other xp/vista machines but twork" only works when connected to the internet. ----Is this normal?
..Network" only works when connected to the internet
That is for all the computers, not just the Linux one, correct?

Some data might help...
Provide the data, and there may be some help available.
--such as manufacture of dsl modem + print server device & model #s'
we know the generic description of the connecting hardware
  • dsl modem and print server/router ?
With that data, we will have a much better idea of the connections you are using..

As a general guide
  • Disconnect what you don't need for the Internet
  • Connect only to the Ethernet switch box
    --most routers have 1-4 Ethernet ports and act as an ethernet switch (for the local LAN) + a router (providing dhcp server services) to enable IP addressing for the devices attached tom those ethernet ports
If you actually don't have an Ethernet switch with x number of LAN (Ethernet port) connections, then NO you won't be able to get the network without going through the router to your ISP (Internet)

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