Se cret....Linux mantower wrote:FedoraRefugee, you miss the point, they are covert Linux operatives, they must have a disguise
Se cret....Linux man
Well said!shane wrote:We have to put the pride away and take the baby steps. We've all had to do it.
Could some of these many people you speak of please visit my cry for help here:LongRider wrote:... You will find many people in the Linux Community (especially here in the Mint forums) that are willing to help
And taking a look at your level indicator at the right it looks like you've asked a whole lot of questions. learn anything yet?exploder wrote:I agree completely. If I don't understand something I just come right out and say so, that's the way I have always been.The way I see it, newbies assume that everyone knows that they are newbies.
There is no connection between being an expert in Windows and being able to use Linux or even be an expert in any other operating system type (BSD, Mac OS, Linux, Unix, etc.). Pride has nothing to do with the jump between OS types, being unable to accept change is however.shane wrote:@zerofire
I'm sure you must have heard this before... Linux is not Windows. If you want something like what you have in Windows... then use Windows. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that they've used Windows since nth version and are Windows experts... and hence they should be Linux savvy. That is wrong. It doesn't matter. If you're new to Linux you are a newbie. We have to put the pride away and take the baby steps. We've all had to do it.
Trying to tell a very opinionated and freedom-loving community what they should and should not do is never going to work. Look at Oracle with their billions attempting to control OpenSolaris and OpenOffice. The people who have invested the most i.e. the community are always going to control it. So, if you want to change it, you have to become part of it. If you don't, the community (as a whole) is still going to have what they want.
As for never getting help in Linux, you do realise that one of the main purposes of these forums is to provide help...
Well maybe pride is not the proper word. What I mean is, there are many people who know and understand how Windows works (it's usually the Windows users, since everything else is related to UNIX)... and when they come to Linux, don't know. But still they refuse to take on that 'newbie' label and just reject the whole thing because it is not what they expect. A good example is the structure of the file system. They go on to just reject the whole concept from the start... declaring that having a C drive is they way to go.zerofire wrote: There is no connection between being an expert in Windows and being able to use Linux or even be an expert in any other operating system type (BSD, Mac OS, Linux, Unix, etc.). Pride has nothing to do with the jump between OS types, being unable to accept change is however.
At the moment, Linux is a niche market. That's just the way it is. Going with the car metaphor, if I had a Tesla and took it to the local mechanic he's most probably not going to know heads from tails. This is not the fault of Tesla motors. The real fault lies with the machanic for not keeping up to date with new developments... though that would need learning a whole different system. And also the owner is at fault for not asuring a proper support system when things go wrong. That is a big consideration when actually getting a car like a Tesla.zerofire wrote: As for the help part there is a huge problem. Some people let pride get in the way but the average computer user does not want to do any of his own maintenance. Essentially he wants another person in the real world to fix all of his problems and almost no mechanic has Linux experience. You visit almost any IT department, mention Linux, and you can guarantee you will get funny faces of bewilderment. Also not every system is able to connect to the Internet right off the bat. There are many who struggle with NIC card configurations due to either being lazy to plug in an Ethernet wire or flat out incompatible hardware. I myself am lucky that my T23 comes with an Intel NIC that auto-configures as I have no Wi-Fi card on it.
If this kind of user is your target audience, I think Linux Mint is the best OS/distro you could give them. I don't know about Mac OS X. If you threw Mint on a machine and got everything working, it will remain that way. Mint is great like that. It installs updates, but only packages that are sure to not cause breakages. This is one area where Mint beats Ubuntu hands down for the 'average computer user'. Basically, Mint is a 'set it and forget it' distro... requiring minimum maintenance.zerofire wrote:... but the average computer user does not want to do any of his own maintenance...
that's why with this attitude Ubuntu bug #1 will never be solved.allypink wrote:I don't think many linux folks care if people come over from MS or if MS remains the dominant force.
1. Most people expect things to be very close to Windows.chris0101 wrote:1. Most people expect things to be very close to Windows. Perhaps an operating system that looks like the one below with an automatic Wine function built in is the solution. (Most likely, the MS Messenger would be Wined of course). This is because people are inherently averse to change and because they actually have to learn it again.
4. Poor tech support or because few other people around them use it. When there is trouble with Windows, you can ask somebody around to help. Mac, with its growing market share, is starting to be like that as well. Linux? Not as easy