No updates?

Archived topics about LMDE 1 and LMDE 2
asymmetros
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Re: No updates?

Post by asymmetros »

There's probably a big chance that using a ppa will broke the application you are updating from there, but i don't know about damaging the entire system. At least if the application is a high-level app that doesn't tries to install shared libraries (that may break other programs) or touch important system files.
And if it breaks for any reason, you only have to uninstall it and go back to your distro repository.
Sorry guys for my english. There is a possibility for a minor problem to a more serious damage (especially when you keep adding ubuntu' repos) but you have a chance to repair even the worst "problem". See also the warning there: http://sites.google.com/site/mydebiansourceslist/ (a useful link for adding extra repos). My first point is that Lisa is more compatible with ubuntu than with Debian. There are users, running ubuntus with 5, 10 or more ( :!: ) ppa's added. Just imagine them, running LMDE, with the same repos added, plus ppa's for chrome, ff, libre, vlc,gimp etc.. cause they want a latest version of each of those programs -programs already existed and well-maintained upstream. Secondly, some programs offering also and "debian" binaries, not only "ubuntu's". See eg Opera: in such a case, the debian source is the recommended one for a "debian" user.
But my main point is that a user have to set his priorities. Under the circumstances. if someone wants frequent upgrades or upgrades in a more or less known frequency or he/she worries about security issues, then it is a good idea for him to consider the option to point to Testing repos. It's a matter of taste. So, my comment "But if you do not like the idea of running a rolling release, keep the "latest" repos" was only an attempt to emphasize the difference between this choice and the existing situation with UP's -not my opinion for UP's. I am not stating (here) my opinion for UP's
PS1: there is also the alternative to enable testing repos just to upgrade firefox -but the user must be aware of the dependencies.
PS2: "That "default" makes LMDE just a rebranded Debian Testing with preinstalled multimedia codecs. That's nice, but IMHO not enough to justify a switch to LMDE." Seriously, a topic with that subject would be very interesting -cause there are many users using LMDE that way. IMHO, lmde has an easier and faster installer but debian's installer is better, it depends on the user what he prefers more.
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carsten90
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Re: No updates?

Post by carsten90 »

LMDE is dead.

I don't blame anyone, but seriously: more than three months without a single update? I mean, there is a difference between "having concerns about security" and the current situation - it's not a good idea to be using LMDE right now. No information about anything, it should just be declared dead!

LMDE was a wonderful idea, but if there aren't enough developers, there's nothing you can do - apart from stopping to advertise LMDE on the LM website. In the current situation without any certainty nobody should be fooled into installing LMDE.
thomasmc
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Re: No updates?

Post by thomasmc »

carsten90 wrote:LMDE is dead.

I don't blame anyone, but seriously: more than three months without a single update? I mean, there is a difference between "having concerns about security" and the current situation - it's not a good idea to be using LMDE right now. No information about anything, it should just be declared dead!

LMDE was a wonderful idea, but if there aren't enough developers, there's nothing you can do - apart from stopping to advertise LMDE on the LM website. In the current situation without any certainty nobody should be fooled into installing LMDE.
If you think LMDE is dead because it hasn't had an update in three months, what must you think of Debian, which only updates every two years ...?
KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by KBD47 »

Wow, I must be using a 'ghost version' then :lol: If I was that worried about updates I would just enable the Debian Testing repositories which is still the default setting on the Gnome and Xfce downloads of Mint Debian.
To put it bluntly, plain old Debian Stable has the advantage of being stable, but Mint Debian looks nicer, has an easier installer, has better font rendering, and has a good community behind it. Mint Debian is lighter and faster than the Ubuntu based version. I cannot fault the Mint team for trying to put some stability in their version, and I agree with the philosophy behind it. If I truly wanted quick updates as bad as some folks here, I would just run with sid enabled and be done with it. Speaking just for me, so far I'm happy with Mint Debian. I think there are lots of choices and options if it were otherwise.
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jackmetal
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Re: No updates?

Post by jackmetal »

I've been running LMDE since it first came out (and I'm still pointing directly to debian testing on a number of my machines, both desktop and laptop, with NO issues at all - even during the Gnome 2 to Gnome 3 switch, no issues). I have 2 systems currently using the update packs, but I think I'll probably switch them over to testing also.

For info, here's the main portion of my current sources:
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import universe
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://www.debian-multimedia.org testing main non-free

Been running this for a year now on my laptop and I changed over to them from the linuxmint repos last week on another laptop and desktop and all are running great and updated. :-)
-----
LMDE - The ONLY way to go
w/Debian Testing & Debian SID Repo's
asymmetros
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Re: No updates?

Post by asymmetros »

Just for the records: Debian Stable receives security upgrades when needed -and point releases:

http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110319
http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20110625
http://www.debian.org/News/2011/20111008


Regarding LMDE 's UP's, there was a rather vivid topic discussing this: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=185&t=86010.
Since then, different users keep asking the same questions (just search in the forum or take for example a recent one http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=88323) :mrgreen: , and Clem keep posting in the blog but not for this. So, as a conclusion, if anyone wants to run LMDE, there are the two options already mentioned: change sources to testing or sid and forget about UP's story, or be patient and choose KBD7's approach. It's pointless to say anything else.

PS: Between those two options. i am strongly suggesting the first: if you are okay with testing, you ll feel more free cause you have not to worry again for UP's, "bright" ideas, pre-installed applications, re-installs and that kind of staff.
That's all.
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rjs
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Re: No updates?

Post by rjs »

carsten90 wrote:LMDE is dead.

I don't blame anyone, but seriously: more than three months without a single update? I mean, there is a difference between "having concerns about security" and the current situation - it's not a good idea to be using LMDE right now. No information about anything, it should just be declared dead!

LMDE was a wonderful idea, but if there aren't enough developers, there's nothing you can do - apart from stopping to advertise LMDE on the LM website. In the current situation without any certainty nobody should be fooled into installing LMDE.
I laughed so hard coffee flew out of my nose. Good one Carsten. LMDE is the only reason I'm using Mint. And just as with Debian, you don't receive 50-100 gig of so called patches to make you feel all warm and snuggly inside. If it's not broke, don't fix it. If you want Debian patches, point your /etc/apt/sources.lst to Debian servers. But I assure you, getting updates and patches won't happen very often on Debian's repo servers either unless it's critical or fixes something important. Especially on stable. :)

I'm seeing clearly that in the future, all of Linux Mint's flavors will be based off of Debian. So one need to get accustom to things actually working and not needing patched daily. :)
---
"LMDE - Linux Mint Debian Edition - Debian, with a touch of elegance." -rjs
SpacePig
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Re: No updates?

Post by SpacePig »

carsten90 wrote:LMDE is dead.

I don't blame anyone, but seriously: more than three months without a single update? I mean, there is a difference between "having concerns about security" and the current situation - it's not a good idea to be using LMDE right now. No information about anything, it should just be declared dead!

LMDE was a wonderful idea, but if there aren't enough developers, there's nothing you can do - apart from stopping to advertise LMDE on the LM website. In the current situation without any certainty nobody should be fooled into installing LMDE.
LMDE is not dead as Clem has been focusing on his flagship product Lisa all this time. However, we have to admit, as carsten90 said, that Linux Mint is lacking of developer support. The whole project and its philosophy is getting too difficult to handle at this stage. LMDE for me is still buggy, although I'm using it everyday and I love it, I'm experiencing all kinds of problems and flaws with it, but I kind of fix them checking out the forums.

I hope it will one day gain the popularity of it's Ubuntu based relative. It's the most innovative project of the team so far: make Debian easy to use without loosing the compatibility of the upstream repos.

EDIT: By the way, hello to everyone (it's my first post :D )
livram79
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Re: No updates?

Post by livram79 »

kruijf wrote:On the blog Clem tells us why there is no UP4 yet:
@All (about LMDE): We’re holding the updates on LMDE at the moment for two reasons: X11 is broken upstream and Debian is in the process of updating Gnome to version 3 in testing. When Gnome 3.2 and X11 are healthy in Debian testing we’ll release a new update pack along with MATE packages and MGSE for LMDE.
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
Friends, the question about the lack of updates for LMDE has already been answered, see post nr.7.
Benny
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Re: No updates?

Post by Benny »

I understand the work on gnome 3 but why no upgrades for the xfce version ? :?
Also on incomming repos , but nothing incomming ?
maybe the pack thing upgrades are not a good way to deal whit a rolling distro ?
For now I'm very happy whit xfce mint debian !
but i feel not secure how it go now . :?:
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jackmetal
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Re: No updates?

Post by jackmetal »

Benny wrote:I understand the work on gnome 3 but why no upgrades for the xfce version ? :?
Also on incomming repos , but nothing incomming ?
maybe the pack thing upgrades are not a good way to deal whit a rolling distro ?
For now I'm very happy whit xfce mint debian !
but i feel not secure how it go now . :?:
If you want to keep getting timely updates, you could move to the debian testing repo's (like LMDE used to point to before the update packs).

Just change your repo's to point to debian testing (or whatever version of debian you want: stable, testing, sid) and run the update manager gui. My main work laptop has been on the debian testing repo's since it was installed last December (so for about a year now). I moved my personal laptop over to the debian testing repo's a couple weeks ago and I just changed my media center desktop over to testing this week and updated the 1000+ packages in under 30 minutes.

No issues with any of them and all works well, with continued updates.
-----
LMDE - The ONLY way to go
w/Debian Testing & Debian SID Repo's
bootmakr
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Re: No updates?

Post by bootmakr »

LMDE is dead.
Until the MUD is updated, I've switched to Debian Testing repos, and, using a terminal, I have done

Code: Select all

apt-get update && apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade
once and then after that every so often I just

Code: Select all

apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
:mrgreen:
I've experienced no problems with Testing repos - just be sure you watch what is to be upgraded and make sure you want it upgraded - that will help keep you out of trouble.

LMDE is a great derivative of Debian - and the future of LMDE will be good if everyone doesn't get their undies in a twist - be patient, Clem and the dev team have great plans for this distro, and you know the old aphorism, "Rome wasn't built in a day" !

If I was smart enuff to code, I'd be calling on Clem to let me help, but I'm just a computer illiterate who's lucky to be able to use Linux instead of WinBlows - If anyone out there knows how to code or is smart enough to learn/teach-yourself, give 'em a hand and help improve LMDE instead of complaining about how slow it updates!!

just my personal opinion .......

P.S.: There's another way to look at it - mentioned earlier in this thread - IF LMDE were dead, by using the Testing repos, you would end up with a very polished version of Debian Testing :wink:
KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by KBD47 »

I had two Mint Debian installs, LMDX pointed to latest--no problems whatsoever--and LMDE which I switched to Wheezy repos last night. After 800 updates some of my software was missing, some broken, found myself in dependency hell with the libnautilus1a breaking dropbox, if I reinstalled libnautilus1 dropbox would work, but several others would not, including brasero. Eventually LMDE was borked beyond repair, or at least beyond my willingness to continue fooling with it. I dread when the updates finally come to LMDX pointed at latest. I hope the bugs have been worked out.
KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by bootmakr »

KBD47 wrote:I had two Mint Debian installs, LMDX pointed to latest--no problems whatsoever--and LMDE which I switched to Wheezy repos last night. After 800 updates some of my software was missing, some broken, found myself in dependency hell with the libnautilus1a breaking dropbox, if I reinstalled libnautilus1 dropbox would work, but several others would not, including brasero. Eventually LMDE was borked beyond repair, or at least beyond my willingness to continue fooling with it. I dread when the updates finally come to LMDX pointed at latest. I hope the bugs have been worked out.
KBD47
If you want to have a rolling-release, take out the words"Wheezy" and put in "testing" because, when Wheezy goes to stable, you'll be stuck in "stable hell," instead of rolling along with the next version of testing :!: :wink: I've had those same 800 or more updates/upgrades and have had virtually no problems at all. I also had some libs that wouldn't install, but I decided not to force or --fix missing them, I just went on w/o them. I use a 32-bit, do you use 64? I haven't done anything on my 64 bit desktop since I changed it out for my laptop.
KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by KBD47 »

I use 32 bit. I think I was probably spoiled starting out with Linux using Debian Stable Mepis. I beat the crap out of it learning Linux and couldn't break it. Some versions of Linux you are afraid to breath around them for upsetting their delicate balance. I would be curious how well the testing repo and a rolling release works the first 6 months to a year after the new release, I can only imagine the amount of updates that come pouring in. I think Wheezy gets locked down around June? There shouldn't be many problems with the updates until the beginning of next year when the process begins again.
Am I wrong in thinking that Sid and Testing were never meant to be a continuous release, but only a means to an end, only a way to get to the finale of another Debian Stable release?
KBD47
PS--My suggestion to Debian or Mint would be to have a Level 2 Stable release once a year based on Testing with more up to date software and an easier installer. A fixed release that receives only critical updates and select software updates for 2 years. Hey, I can wish :-)
Monsta
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Re: No updates?

Post by Monsta »

KBD47 wrote:Am I wrong in thinking that Sid and Testing were never meant to be a continuous release, but only a means to an end, only a way to get to the finale of another Debian Stable release?
Unstable/Sid is the "true rolling" release, testing is the means to an end. It's all explained in the FAQ: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=197&t=91405 :)
KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by KBD47 »

I've had a growing suspicion that Testing may be the worst of all worlds as far as a distro base, being behind Stable on security updates, and behind on software updates from Sid. I know there are over 800 updates waiting right now in Testing, and in 6 months Wheezy will be frozen. I'm not convinced Mint Debian is working like it should or like it ought to, or if a Rolling Testing release actually makes sense. I hope it will and does, I'm just not convinced yet.
KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by asymmetros »

KBD47 wrote:I've had a growing suspicion that Testing may be the worst of all worlds as far as a distro base, being behind Stable on security updates, and behind on software updates from Sid. I know there are over 800 updates waiting right now in Testing, and in 6 months Wheezy will be frozen. I'm not convinced Mint Debian is working like it should or like it ought to, or if a Rolling Testing release actually makes sense. I hope it will and does, I'm just not convinced yet.
KBD47
If you search Debian 's wiki, they suggest sid over testing. Other than that, 800 updates is not a regular thing if you running either testing or sid and it is not fair to judge any rolling model from that. I was running LMDE testing, since September '10 and i never got so many updates -not even when squeeze became stable and new testing -wheezy- introduced. You can find also weekly snapshots- (iso's) of testing so a user can start from there, without upgrading about a million packages. With 800+ updates, close your eyes, cross your fingers and go.
Update packs systems aims to keep out the "problematic" updates, take care of dependencies and offer a system as solid as the usual 6-month release.
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zerozero
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Re: No updates?

Post by zerozero »

testing is (my humble opinion) the balanced option: stable gets too "last century" too fast (and backports only answer to a minor amount of requests) and sid, well, sid is just too unpredictable to base a distro with the goals like mint upon it (but it's ohh so sweet :D)
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KBD47
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Re: No updates?

Post by KBD47 »

I would be running Stable if not for the old software, and rather bad font rendering. I truly hope the Mint way of pointing repos to Latest pays off. I've got an LMDX install set up that way and I will keep hoping it works despite my concerns.
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