latest/incoming are working (this might look odd, but it's true)
if we look at the rationale behind their creation this is the way they were supposed to "shield" the users that choose to stay within the UP system; the buffer today is huge but the first rule was/is stability (never releasing a broken UP to latest) and here history has to help us: not to long after UP3, xorg broke in testing and remained broken for ages (this exactly one month after UP3 ), then even before this turmoil was completely settled, gnome-shell migrated to testing (beginning of nov), but not that shinny, fancy Mint12's shell, no! was the vanilla, raw gnome-shell v.3.0 and since then we are still waiting that v3.2 lands in testing so that the users can get mgse (and now cinnamon) with the UP.
With my LMDE install I ran those Testing updates and it broke my OS. I got Gnome Shell--worst desktop ever without MGSE or Cinnamon. It also ruined my fonts beyond my being able to fix them, installed some sort of horrible font-config file that made my fonts look lousy. Dropbox no longer worked, some other apps were also broken or removed.
With Latest I've only had a couple of updates to Firefox and Thunderbird. I'm hoping when updates come through to Latest it doesn't break or mess stuff up in my LMDX install.
KBD47
zerozero wrote:testing is (my humble opinion) the balanced option: stable gets too "last century" too fast (and backports only answer to a minor amount of requests) and sid, well, sid is just too unpredictable to base a distro with the goals like mint upon it
I tried sid, sidux, Kanotix, etc., constant breakages ...... not for the faint of heart or the computer illiterate like me - I'll stick to testing LMDE does a great job of molding and shaping Debian testing into a smooth, polished distro, kinda like Libranet back a few years! JMHO .......
zerozero wrote:latest/incoming are working (this might look odd, but it's true)
if we look at the rationale behind their creation this is the way they were supposed to "shield" the users that choose to stay within the UP system; the buffer today is huge but the first rule was/is stability (never releasing a broken UP to latest) and here history has to help us: not to long after UP3, xorg broke in testing and remained broken for ages (this exactly one month after UP3 ), then even before this turmoil was completely settled, gnome-shell migrated to testing (beginning of nov), but not that shinny, fancy Mint12's shell, no! was the vanilla, raw gnome-shell v.3.0 and since then we are still waiting that v3.2 lands in testing so that the users can get mgse (and now cinnamon) with the UP.
This is exactly why I like LMDE so much. It's rolling, but not so fast it causes a wreck
Disappointingly the thread about the question of LMDE beeing a sleeping distro got closed.
And even more disappointingly LMDE really is a sleeping distro... one could call it a sleeping beauty, too, but it would not change the fact, that it is not getting updates for months now. In 2 days it's 5 months now, to be exactly. I really love LMDE, but when it comes to the point, where a rolling release distro runs an older kernel than Debian Stable with enabled Backports, it is time to think about what is going wrong with LMDE.
It might be that LMDE became an unloved child by the dev team. But what I think is, that maybe Clem and the dev team simply are biting off more than they can chew. Mint 12, MGSE, Cinnamon, LMDE, all the diffrent desktops... maybe they should reconsider their strategy and management.
If the Mint team does not have the resources to deal with all the projects, they should focus more on the projects they think are important and abandon those that are not. This would avoid leaving people behind frustrated and disappointed and increase quality on the projects that stay in work. Surely it would be disappointing to see projects die like LMDE. But if they can not deliver what they have promised, (like update packs every month) they simply have to make a decision on what they really want, instead of not even announcing a word about the project.
It would be nice to hear/read a statement from Clem and the team on that.
I was one of those, who were excited the most when Clem and the Mint team announced the Update Pack update mechanism. It's promising to deliver a system with a perfect balance between stability, security and up to date software packages. But this needs regular Update Packs to function. Regular means at least every two months in my opinion. I could deal with 3 months, too - no problem on that. But nearly half a year means a release cycle that fits that of Ubuntu. This is not what I would call rolling and I'm not alone with that opinion.
I can understand that stability is more important than up to date software, I can understand that stability is more important than even security, but how much longer shall we wait? In April the next Ubuntu-based Mint will be under heavy development, Cinnamon awaits a lot of attention until that... lets expect that until the release of Mint 13 there will be too much work to focus on and LMDE has to wait. This would mean a delay of the Update Pack until April, maybe even May or later and therefore 9 months without Update to a so called rolling release distro!!!
I have to admit, that I'm considering a distro change, if there will be no Update Pack in sight in the near future. It would be disappointing to leave such a great community und distro, but a system needs to be reliable. That includes that one can rely on regular updates!
Hopefully I won't have to change.
From Germany - disappointed and waiting for Updates
FEARtheReaper
I would think we will see up4 on the incoming repo at some point in the near future ... gnome-shell 3.2 has finally made it's way into testing. Wasn't that the big one that they were waiting on?
For the time being, LMDE is my last chance for stability while the problems with Gnome 3, Cinnamon, Mate, etc. get worked out. I don't care if it takes a year or more before updates come as long I can keep doing my work. I realize change is coming, but my hope is that by the time Cinnamon and Mate arrive in LMDE they will have matured enough to provide me with the features I have come to know and love; and that I use in my web design business daily. And, with the latest news about Ubuntu's plans for its next release, I am definitely not in any hurry to use anything even remotely connected with them. I have tried Linux Mint 12 main edition, but where is my weather applet and support for my ATI video card; and probably other things I haven't discovered are missing yet.
It's perfectly OK to wait. We all know why, I think.
I just hope we'll get, not only UP4 but also a respin of the LMDE iso. The last one was, I think, five months ago. Because UP4, including Gnome3 with Cinnamon and Mate and the whole backlog of updates will anyway be huge. If not, I think I will wait for this, it should be coming soon too.
@FEARtheReaper: I second your thoughts. (Though I have to admit I'm not affected directly -- running Crunchbang on testing -- but I do sympathize with LMDE and Mint in general.)
Calling LMDE a rolling distro certainly is a mismatch if updates come in only every 5 or 6 months (am I wrong that it's more like 4 months atm? Announcement on sept, 28). I hope it will get better. But one thing must be clear to you: it can't be rolling gently for testing itself. Testing will get a freeze in June in preparation of Debian Wheezy. Then the next updates apart from minor bugfixes will come in after Wheezy's release (perhaps Jan 2013). So, a gently rolling release is basically impossible with testing.
What can you do then? Switch your sources to testing or unstable (sid). I'm on testing (since over a year now and I had no major breakages -- with XFCE, though) and I will switch to sid before june. I think if you like it stable and gently rolling you have to set up an Arch installation, Debian simply isn't made for being rolling AND stable.
However LMDE still is an interesting approach, perhaps the best attempt of an user friendly (more or less) rolling debian based distro. While it doesn't provide you permanently with the latest and greatest versions it still has the benefit of installing once and for all (perhaps still to prove ...). In the end it sums up like most of these threads: choose yourself between exciting adventures and boring stability ...
Thinkpad X220 with Samsung SSD running Xubuntu 13.04 I'm getting old gladly -- I don't like to die young ...
I do not run Gnome, so I do not worry about the Gnome 3 situation. But I would like updates to several other applications I use. I choose a rolling release distro because I cook up my own DE and it takes time setting it all back up after a resintall. What I would like to see is some kind of road map for LMDE. If the Mint devs simply said "we've been tied up and we wanted to wait for Gnome 3, so UP4 will be coming sometime late March" I would be fine with that. It's not knowing that bothers me (a little).
Last edited by cdysthe on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
cdysthe wrote: What I would like to see is some kind of road map for LMDE. If the Mint devs simply said "we've been tied up and we wanted to wait for Gnome 3, so UP4 will be coming something in late March" I would be fine with that. It's not knowing that bothers me (a little).
I do agree with this position. I think the main problem is the lack of informations about the future of LMDE.
quote from : http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1925 Update Pack 4 should hit the “incoming” LMDE repository in the coming weeks and provide MATE, Cinnamon, GNOME 3 and Gnome Shell to LMDE users.
Linux Mint 12 KDE was approved for a stable release and should come out either today or tomorrow.
Our new partnership with Blue Systems improved the quality of the Linux Mint KDE edition as well as the Netrunner distribution and brought in a significant and predictable source of income, allowing us to welcome an extra full-time developer.
Following the feedback we gathered on Gnome Shell after the release of Linux Mint 12, it was clear that despite our efforts with MATE and MGSE, we still didn’t manage to reach our goals and to offer Gnome 2 a valid alternative. Some people were enthusiastic about the new alternatives, others were disappointed. For this reason and in an effort to please a wider portion of our user base, we decided to continue to support MATE and to develop a new desktop called Cinnamon. MATE 1.2 should be out soon. Cinnamon 1.2 is already out and available to Linux Mint 12 users via the repositories. Update Pack 4 should hit the “incoming” LMDE repository in the coming weeks and provide MATE, Cinnamon, GNOME 3 and Gnome Shell to LMDE users.
mank_in wrote:quote from : http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1925 Update Pack 4 should hit the “incoming” LMDE repository in the coming weeks and provide MATE, Cinnamon, GNOME 3 and Gnome Shell to LMDE users.
Thanks for the link. Wow that was buried deep down and out of my sight. I have been searching for "update pack", but didn't think of "UP4". I feel much better though although I'm a bit nervous having all that added to my system in one giant go!
Does it mean that the dev's had no time to prepare the UP4 and that they only start to work on it from now ?
Clearly, LMDE users need more informations about the future of their favorite distribution. I can understand that the priority is Mint and not the rolling LMDE. I can understand that the dev's have too much work to maintain Mint and LMDE at the same time. I can understand that LMDE maintenance is time consuming.
But users need to know.
I can not understand why the developpers are concentrating on a retrograded Ubuntu base instead of a forward aiming Debian base without Ubuntu, aka LMDE. And furthermost with KDE, Cinnamon and XFCE.
hopimet wrote:
Does it mean that the dev's had no time to prepare the UP4 and that they only start to work on it from now ?
How can you start working on something you don't have at your disposal?
As far as I understand it Gnome 3.2 just entered Debian testing (it's even mentioned in this thread) and since Gnome 3.2 is essential for Cinnamon to work, and with Cinnamon being one of the things that the devs want to include there's not really much more to do than to wait.
Maybe the more experienced users here can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't the whole philosophy with these packs that each component in them should work with the rest of the updates without too many problems? That everything that gets pushed down to "Latest" is tested as much as possible?
If so - how can that be done if not all components are available? (In this case Gnome 3.2)
has to help us: not to long after UP3, xorg broke in testing and remained broken for ages (this exactly one month after UP3 
), then even before this turmoil was completely settled, gnome-shell migrated to testing (beginning of nov), but not that shinny, fancy Mint12's shell, no! was the vanilla, raw gnome-shell v.3.0 and since then we are still waiting that v3.2 lands in testing so that the users can get mgse (and now cinnamon) with the UP.
LMDE does a great job of molding and shaping Debian testing into a smooth, polished distro, kinda like Libranet back a few years! JMHO .......
