Mint 16 and 17

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anandrkris
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Mint 16 and 17

Post by anandrkris »

[url]http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/news/linux-mint-16-will-be-a-harder-sell-clement-lefebvre[/url]
[url]http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/news/cinnamon-2-0-in-linux-mint-16-no-gnome-back-end[/url]
In an interview for an upcoming issue of Linux User & Developer, Linux Mint developer Clement Lefebvre, aka Clem, revealed some of the plans for the future of Linux Mint and Cinnamon – most importantly, how recent developments have caused the team to finally move to making the code base independent of GNOME:
Clement Lefebvre (CL): Cinnamon 1.8 reached completeness on all visible aspects. In other words, even though the back end is still GNOME, what you see in Mint 15 is a complete Cinnamon front end, whereas in Mint 14 you could see parts of GNOME and Cinnamon tried its best to integrate with that. I think that’s a big reason for Mint 15′s success, people’s perception of it is different I think.
In 2.0 they won’t see the difference and although the back end is hugely important it will be much harder to ‘sell’.
Basically, in [Cinnamon] 2.0 you won’t be running GNOME at all
Linux User & Developer: So will [Cinnamon] 2.0 be in [Linux] Mint 16?
CL: This is both something we want and something we have to do. Yes.
Linux Mint 17 and Cinnamon 2.1 won’t have the same problem though, which should come just in time for the next big LTS release, Ubuntu 14.04.
Linux User & Developer: This means you’ll be ready for the LTS release?
CL: Yes, because relying on our own technology is a huge asset for innovation, Not only does it push the boundaries of what isn’t possible further, but things we don’t want changed, don’t change and we’re not catching up with things and fixing regressions.”
Cheers,
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InkKnife
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by InkKnife »

I like the way Mint is going and have full faith that Clem and team have the chops to carry things forward. The way they have developed Cinnamon so rapidly has been impressive to watch and I expect nothing but greatness in the future.
I have used Windows a lot and OSX extensively, still do at work, but in my humble opinion, Mint/Cinnamon edition is the best OS I have ever used.
i7 3770, 12GB of ram, 256GB SSD, 64GB SSD, 750GB HDD, 1TB HDD, Cinnamon.

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wheeledgoat
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by wheeledgoat »

I agree. I have a hard time understanding some of the posts I read around here; "Mint sux, I'm going back to ..."

Granted I'm relatively new, but really that just enhances my point. I still have to use Windows at work, and have a Windows7 machine at home, but my new Mint box is a pure pleasure to sit down at. It just WORKS. It gets out of it's own way. I feel like I'm sitting down to a computer where the top 3 layers of crap have been removed and I can do what I want to do. I had an easier time networking my Win7 machine with Mint than I did with XP! lmfao.

I'm not going to pretend I know what the dev is talking about when he talks about abandoning Gnome, but I trust the team and look forward to future developments. They sure have done right so far, IMO.

"If you don't make mistakes, you're not working on hard enough problems. And that's a big mistake."
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samriggs
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by samriggs »

Good about time they left gnome, I know some might not like it but if it was based on gnome they would have to change things everything gnome decided to change things to make it compatible and hopefully backward compatible, which if anyone made themes for gnome 3 in the beginning knows that didn't happen to good.
I think Cinnamon standing on it's own is a good thing, gives the team more control of what it has in it and where it's going.
Good news :D
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dee.
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by dee. »

I think moving away from Gnome is a good plan long term. I just want to know, what is the Cinnamon plan regarding Wayland migration? I wish Clem would comment about the plans regarding Wayland more.

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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by samriggs »

I think that's still a wait and see what happens.
Ubuntu will use Mir we all know this, but debian might and probably will wayland, kind of a weird predicament for Clem.
who knows maybe he'll use both.
main edition if it continues to be based on ubuntu will go mir for compatibility by the looks of it
lmde will have to go wayland if debian does.

As long as the base continues the way it does it seems that is how it might play out, but who knows.
everyone wants to knows but the whole thing is probably waiting to see what happens upstream unless they get rid of ubuntu altogether or somehow rebuild it to use only wayland instead.

It's all just a guess and wait and see.
I'm not even sure Clem knows which way this is all going to play out yet.
and the wayland/mir debate continues and probably will go on and on until it happens.

you could go ask him at #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org. if he's online
Last edited by samriggs on Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DrHu
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by DrHu »

I remember losts of arguments about Tomboy (A Gnome app) vs a non-gnome base for an application, and the developer (Mint) conscences was that it was the right thing to have, despite any other option(s)
--also the argument about Mono as a developer's base for Linux/Mint et all (Gnome, that is..).

Now that's pretty much gone as well. Times change, I guess.
--good luck with the self built process.

dee.
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by dee. »

samriggs wrote:I think that's still a wait and see what happens.
Ubuntu will use Mir we all know this, but debian might and probably will wayland, kind of a weird predicament for Clem.
who knows maybe he'll use both.
main edition if it continues to be based on ubuntu will go mir for compatibility by the looks of it
I certainly hope not. Has this been investigated at all? All the other Ubuntu derivatives are up in arms about this, not knowing what to do, because it looks like running Mir with any other desktop will not be feasible... Mir will be designed for the needs of Unity and Unity only, and it does not provide a stable API/ABI - which means it would be stupid for any other desktop to support it. Just when Mint is getting away from the API madness of GNOME, they would subject themselves to the API madness of Canonical? That, quite frankly, spells disaster.
lmde will have to go wayland if debian does.
Hang on, wait. You mean that Cinnamon would be ported to run on both Wayland and Mir? What's the point in that? Are there resources to do that?
As long as the base continues the way it does it seems that is how it might play out, but who knows.
everyone wants to knows but the whole thing is probably waiting to see what happens upstream unless they get rid of ubuntu altogether or somehow rebuild it to use only wayland instead.

It's all just a guess and wait and see.
I'm not even sure Clem knows which way this is all going to play out yet.
and the wayland/mir debate continues and probably will go on and on until it happens.

you could go ask him at #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org. if he's online
I personally think it unlikely that any other desktop would support Mir, but if Mint ends up going in that direction, I'm afraid I'll be forced to change to another distro. Wayland is the way of the future, Mir is just more of Canonical's NIH madness. It would be great to hear some reassurance from the Mint team, I can't believe they wouldn't have considered these options and eventualities by now.

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samriggs
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by samriggs »

dee. wrote: It would be great to hear some reassurance from the Mint team, I can't believe they wouldn't have considered these options and eventualities by now.
Dee you keep wondering about this, just go ask them, I don't think anyone here knows what's on their mind, I know your concerned about it, this isn't the first post you talked about it, and I can understand it to a point, all it would take is a quick click on irc and ask them.
Maybe they can let you know if they made up their minds about this yet.
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anandrkris
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by anandrkris »

[url]http://www.muktware.com/5356/clement-lefebvre-mir-irrelevant-linux-mint[/url]
Q. What strategy do you have in place as Ubuntu transitions to in-house technologies such as Mir. How will Linux Mint handle this transition to Mir (will you use it?)
Lefebvre: Mir is irrelevant. Nobody ever heard of it a week ago and plans don't change based on wild speculations. If Ubuntu isn't clear on what they want Ubuntu to be, that's their problem. It has nothing to do with Linux Mint.
What's important is the end result, Mint itself, the experience given to the user. How we get there and what components we use to reach our goal is secondary.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=127924
We gotta trust the Clem and his team on their vision.
A note aside, it looks like porting KDE to Wayland did not take much efforts and is available as an experimental version in KDE 4.11 beta. [url]http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/06/what-we-did-in-kwin-4-11/[/url]
Cheers,
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samriggs
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by samriggs »

anandrkris wrote: We gotta trust the Clem and his team on their vision.
yup my feelings exactly, it's their project, and so far they have not disappointed me.
What's important is the end result, Mint itself, the experience given to the user. How we get there and what components we use to reach our goal is secondary.
Good answer, as long as it's good and it works I'm happy.
Although I can probably see the majority going wayland, but that will have to be a wait and see what happens in the end.
Kind of like the name better then Mir, Mir sounds like a crash and burn waiting to happen because of the space station. wonder who came up with that name.
Thanks anandrkris
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dee.
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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by dee. »

samriggs wrote:
dee. wrote: It would be great to hear some reassurance from the Mint team, I can't believe they wouldn't have considered these options and eventualities by now.
Dee you keep wondering about this, just go ask them, I don't think anyone here knows what's on their mind, I know your concerned about it, this isn't the first post you talked about it, and I can understand it to a point, all it would take is a quick click on irc and ask them.
Maybe they can let you know if they made up their minds about this yet.
I would but I don't know when they are available on IRC. Time zones and all...

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Re: Mint 16 and 17

Post by xenopeek »

Clem has already given assurances on this earlier on the blogosphere; Linux Mint isn't in a race to pick winners, so the developers are not hastily going to either adapt Wayland or Mir. For now Linux Mint will continue to use Xorg (there is currently only one Wayland based distro that I know of). Though Ubuntu will use Mir for Unity eventually (preview available 13.10), Ubuntu derivatives will stay on Xorg and probably all move to Wayland eventually. If Linux Mint would be forced to adopt Wayland early, it can still run Xorg is a hosted mode as a Wayland client--meaning there is the option for gradual migration to Wayland. But who knows what Mir will do in the next year, it might become a viable platform.
dee. wrote:I would but I don't know when they are available on IRC. Time zones and all...
Some of the developers, like Clem, are in western Europe so target timezone GMT+1 or GMT+2. But developers are spread across the globe, and even if you catch the right timezone that doesn't mean they will be on the IRC each hour of every day. So ... visit the IRC and come say hi :)

All this said, let's not rehash the Xorg vs Wayland vs Mir debate here further. There are plenty of other topics already on that. Let's get back to what Linux Mint will do with Mint 16 and 17 (and no, for 16 for sure that won't be Mir or Wayland and for 17 that will be anybody's guess).
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