I was told not to use CLI

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eanfrid
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by eanfrid »

Almost everyone can use a GUI, either novice or experienced used users up to gurus. Just point and click and click and click... That is quite good for everyday use and very casual admin tasks. Whatever OS we use, this is enough to run desktop software and get our common job done. However for many admin tasks and troubleshooting, the GUI is not as efficient/complete/stable/reliable/quick, does not exist or even cannot be used.

@elbendecido: You said that novice users do not want or do not have time to learn anything ? OK, so they will still stay pointing/clicking novice users forever, will never learn/understand the system they chose and will never be able to maintain/repair their computer by themselves without reinstalling the whole system, hence losing data and blaming their chosen distrib for that. And this kind of novice users will forever complain that Linux is not ready for <whatever> or not as "easy" as Windows when the GUI software is not as featureful as some other OS counterpart or not working like they expected. If using GNU/Linux is a choice they did not make for themselves (corporate use for example), that's OK but in all other cases, they are not ready to ever become experienced GNU/Linux users.

GUI and CLI are both useful, as you need two legs to be able to run.
Main desktop: Debian GNU/Linux Jessie 64bit - MATE
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Nilla Wafer
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by Nilla Wafer »

Many of us don't really want or need to "learn Linux," either because everything works just fine, it isn't broken, so no need to fix anything, or, more likely, "learning Linux" sounds like a whole undergraduate college program of study!

My daddy gets frustrated with small print and says, "I shouldn't have to go out and buy a scanning electron microscope just to read this stupid label!"

Of course Daddy is exagerating. But too many "Linux geeks" make it sound as if you have to "learn Linux" in order to use Linux. I think that the idea behind distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Mepis, and others is to provide a way for people to use Linux without having to "go out and buy a scanning electron microscope" as Dady would say, just to use their home computers for ordinary stuff.

My computer is just a tool to me. Something I use to get school work done, keep in touch with friends in far away places, surf and chat. It works great for that, without using the terminal for anything but keeping it clean.

But I can just imagine having to explain something to a newbie who uses Mint 15 Mate, when I use Mint 13 Xfce. I couldn't tell him where to point and what to click on, but a few terminal commands that transcend DEs and versions would be alot easier to share in a forum or a chatroom. It's easy enough to keep a handy little notebook of common Linux commands for this-and-that, to refer to when a power failure knocks your computer and messes something up, or you click on the wrong thing and mess something up, or an update changes something unexpectedly. Although that's very rare in Mint, espcially with level 1 and 2 updates only enabled. Anyway, the terminal is a toolbox, full of easy, quick fixes to every issue with the OS. Even an ordinary kid with absolutely no geeky skills at all is wise to keep that toolbox handy.

~nilla

trapperjohn
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by trapperjohn »

Coming back around to the original post:
But telling someone to not use commands in the terminal (in Linux) is absolutely absurd!
Even in Windows the cmd is an important tool.

Beyond my love of Linux is a sense of service. I encounter lots of folks that want a Windows alternative and part of the mission of Linux forums, as I undestand them, is to provide support for these migrants... and Windows migrants frequently have a hurdle in adjusting to cli. The situation is this; beyond email, browser, office apps, and a few other stock default applications; currently a Linux user has a finite task set without some level of terminal interaction.

Perhaps it would be nice to have a distribution that never needs cli, but from a utilitarian standpoint there isn't one... except for computers that have entirely compatible hardware at install and have users with basic, stock application requirements.

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js3915
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by js3915 »

Nilla Wafer wrote:My computer is just a tool to me. Something I use to get school work done, keep in touch with friends in far away places, surf and chat. It works great for that, without using the terminal for anything but keeping it clean.
+1
Exactly.. should just work why Mint and several distros now are very good.. Even Pure debian is alot better today and works... And even windows you have it Bjork up at times and windows command prompt is quicker than rebooting at times.. Also have to remember we all dont have the same machine or requirements... Some thing that works fine on one pc just doesnt work on another or something corrupts needs to fix its still eletronics not perfect :D

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librin.so.1
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by librin.so.1 »

Let me get this straight: some of You [You know who I am talking about...] are saying it is better to leave a newbie hanging with a problem than to ["Oh God forbid!"] make the newbie learn a thing or two while helping him/her fix it via the CLI?
"But think of all the childrenpossible frustration & rejection learning might bring!"

I accidentally pressed "submit" instead of "preview", so I had no chance to notice the strikethrough tags don't work here. But I shall leave it as-is.

Code: Select all

while (1) {
	alone();
}

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MartyMint
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by MartyMint »

librin.so.1 wrote:...some of You [You know who I am talking about...] are saying it is better to leave a newbie hanging with a problem than to ["Oh God forbid!"] make the newbie learn a thing or two while helping him/her fix it via the CLI?
No. Nobody is saying that.
There's no need for nonsensical straw-man arguments here.

nomko

Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by nomko »

librin.so.1 wrote:Let me get this straight: some of You [You know who I am talking about...] are saying it is better to leave a newbie hanging with a problem than to ["Oh God forbid!"] make the newbie learn a thing or two while helping him/her fix it via the CLI?
"But think of all the childrenpossible frustration & rejection learning might bring!"

I accidentally pressed "submit" instead of "preview", so I had no chance to notice the strikethrough tags don't work here. But I shall leave it as-is.
I never said that and i will never suggest that! In my opnion, learning Linux is learning CLI. The desktop environment is just a nice, fancy, easy drape over the Linux kernel.

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Nilla Wafer
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by Nilla Wafer »

Ohforgoodnessakes, I can't believe anyone is even arguing about this. Of course Linux users - even casual basic users like me - should learn some basic terminal commands. Just as even casual drivers should learn enough about their car to maintain it, the same is true for computers, regardless of the operating system.

No one is suggesting that newbies should not use the CLI, only that newbies shouldn't be scared away by answering their questions with too much CLI stuff. The problem is that with all the different DEs out there, and different versions of the different DEs, it's not so simple to describe a GUI solution to even a simple problem.

That's why it's always useful for newbies to know what kind of hardware they have, and tell what version of what distro they're asking about. That can help other users of the same distro and version help them sort it out graphically.

~nilla

elbendecido
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by elbendecido »

Ahhh, I love these threads, they put emotion into my life.
In my opnion, learning Linux is learning CLI
Let me complete the sentence. I can? Please....

"In my opnion, learning GNU/Linux is learning GUI/CLI"
GNU: This project handles all the software/stuff over the Kernel (WM's, DE's, etc)
Linux: The Linux Kernel Project.
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catweazel
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by catweazel »

nomko wrote:
elbendecido wrote:
installing software which comes as a tarball (and doesn't have a GUI for installation).
Example? be more precise, there are tons of deb packages and repositories.
Go find it yourself.
Can't answer the challenge, hey.
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.

nomko

Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by nomko »

elbendecido wrote:
Forget this. elbendecido will find any lame excuse to hide his lack of experience with terminals and trying to convince everybody that Linux works like Windows.....only by a GUI.
Nomko is a old-age caveman trapped in the past. Do not know or will not do anything with the GUI (Cinnamon, Mate, Xfce and Kde).What a shame!
Today users, we handle both the GUI and the CLI.
It's a shame to see that you don't recognize the benefit of handling terminal commands. Let's see what happens to you when your desktop environment crashes or your system won't boot into a GUI.....

Calling me an old-age caveman for the reason i know my way around in the terminal??? Hmmm.... explain that to me.

And yes, you probably are better of with Windows, a 100% GUI operating system! Good luck!

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MALsPa
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by MALsPa »

bionix wrote:Today in the IRC LinuxMintHelp channel, Rusty1_64 told me not to help people using the terminal. He said that Linux Mint is a graphical distro and that if i wanted to help ppl by using commands to go somewhere else [...] telling someone to not use commands in the terminal is absolutely absurd!
I agree you, bionix. There are lots of situations where I'll provide the GUI steps -- generally speaking, I actually prefer to do so, especially when I know that the person isn't comfortable at the command line -- yet I think it's ridiculous for someone to tell another person that they shouldn't "help people using the terminal," as you were told. Especially when you're taking the time to help people, volunteering information -- free tech support!

People who don't want to learn to use the command line, well, that's their choice. But if I give a CLI solution, it's also their choice to take advantage of that info or not to; if they aren't happy with it, maybe they can go do a web search and find a solution they like better.

Really, I took time out of my day to help you out and you're gonna complain because I didn't hold your hand through the GUI steps? Fine; go find someone else who'll provide you with free tech support and who has more patience than I have.

:evil:

Best line in this thread, in my opinion:
eanfrid wrote:GUI and CLI are both useful, as you need two legs to be able to run.

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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by elbendecido »

It's a shame to see that you don't recognize the benefit of handling terminal commands
Okay, as I said before, the terminal is very powerful and therefore, is the greatest benefit (in addition to others). The point is that in inexperienced hands, a single command can easily destroy the system without the user noticing it fully (

Code: Select all

rm -rf /
). Instead, as the GUI is less powerful, it would be very rare for a user inexperienced do further damage to your own system.
Let's see what happens to you when your desktop environment crashes or your system won't boot into a GUI.....
Easy, start with a live-cd, analyze the system logs, I find the fault and perform the modifications to the appropriate files to repair the system.
All this using just nemo (file browser), gedit with root powers (file editor), perhaps synaptic, grub-customizer, boot-repair, etc..
Only GUI programs.
Calling me an old-age caveman for the reason i know my way around in the terminal??? Hmmm.... explain that to me.
40 years ago, [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP_7ZopT6oM]in the seventies[/url], there was only the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface]CLI[/url], and people thought like you, that the command line should be used to all interaction with the hardware.
And yes, you probably are better of with Windows
Of course not, I feel better with GNU / Linux, precisely because it has a variety of DE's (GUI) that the same Windows envy (only have one).
a 100% GUI operating system!
False, in case you have not noticed, Windows has a tool called [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_Prompt]Command Prompt[/url] (CLI), which as in GNU / Linux, used to run commands which a GUI is not available.
Good luck!
Thanks, I am :D for your good wishes.
Last edited by elbendecido on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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elbendecido
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by elbendecido »

MALsPa wrote:
Best line in this thread, in my opinion:
eanfrid wrote:GUI and CLI are both useful, as you need two legs to be able to run.
Totally agree.
Remember to mark the thread as solved. Click to edit the first post. At the top, add the word (solved) to the subject line.
Recuerda marcar el hilo como solucionado. Edita el primer post y agrega la palabra (Solucionado) en la línea del titulo (Subject)

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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by rokytnji »

old-age caveman trapped in the past
This CavemanS gliphs, [url=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sD6F6CYmM_U/T61X30L3cVI/AAAAAAAAEME/8tG5xjpXMIQ/s1600/promemap.png]That I paint on my cave man wall[/url].

Code: Select all

harry@biker ~ $ cd Documents
harry@biker ~/Documents $ cat Useful_Commands1
sudo apt-get autoclean   #to clean out dead files
#Find file type in Linux on Mounted Partiton:::  _df -T
#Root Access to Nautiless File Manager::::::::::::gksu nautilus & 
#For Mate ::::::::::::::gksu caja &
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cat /etc/issue     to find out what distro u are using
cat /proc/version
dmesg | head -1
lsb_release -a
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it is a built-in or PCI wireless, use this command to determine the card info:lspci -nn
For Fedora:/sbin/lspci -nn

If it is a USB wireless, use this command. It will not give as much info as for a PCI card, but it is useful anyway:lsusb
For Fedora:/sbin/lsusb

#To see a list of all driver modules that your system is loading, use this command.:lsmod

#To see any error codes that your system may have generated concerning the wireless, enter this command.:dmesg

#To look for firmware errors in the dmesg output. A command that will only give firmware messages can be used:
dmesg | grep firmware

##Good command when card is not seen

lspci | grep Wireless
lshw -class network
 lspci -nnn -k
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Linux distribution and version can be useful, as well as the kernel version. To obtain the kernel version, use this command.: uname -r
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
#For wiping the MBR only, use this command:  dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=446 count=1


#For wiping the entire drive, go with this command:dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 sudo apt-get remove (package name here)
so sudo apt-get remove xserver-xorg 
#and that worked to remove the whole thing then: 
sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg
and it worked like a charm!
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To Open Wajig type     gjig    in terminal
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

To empty root file in trash    type    sudo rm -rf ~/.local/share/Trash/files/*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To compile kernel modules, you need to install a few things first.

kernel-devel (kernel source)
kernel-headers
gcc
make
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Manually mount and unmount USB MP3 Player (No other Flashdrives Plugged in)

sudo mount -t vfat -o rw,umask=0 /dev/sdb1 /media/USB

Will mount the device Read/Write and give full access to all users as if they were root. Don't forget that with a manual mount, you must manually unmount before disconnecting or you risk data corruption and a possible device hang (on the computer, not the stick). You will also need to do this before remounting the device 

sudo umount /dev/sdb1
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
To reset Computer Hold Shift-Ctrl-Alt-SysRq, sequentially press and release R E I S U B______________________________


================================================================================================
 
#Kill and remove Flash Cookies.

#open console
find -iname '*.sol' | wc -l

#this will find them and tell you how many you have.

#to remove them

find -iname '*.sol' -exec rm "{}" \;

#now to verify they are gone

find -iname '*.sol' | wc -l

#find only takes a second to remove all the .sol files.
[url=http://cinemasatori.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/caveman14.jpg]Ug.[/url]


[url=http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=16796.0]Might be nice to see this thread turn into something positive.[/url]
Linux user 475019.

elbendecido
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by elbendecido »

This CavemanS gliphs, That I paint on my cave man wall.
:lol: great, is very funny, this thread seems increasingly interesting.
Remember to mark the thread as solved. Click to edit the first post. At the top, add the word (solved) to the subject line.
Recuerda marcar el hilo como solucionado. Edita el primer post y agrega la palabra (Solucionado) en la línea del titulo (Subject)

nomko

Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by nomko »

elbendecido wrote: :lol: great, is very funny, this thread seems increasingly interesting.
No it's not.

PLIONK

elbendecido
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Re: I was told not to use CLI

Post by elbendecido »

Yes sure, this thread has 1000 views in a short time (compared to others).
Remember to mark the thread as solved. Click to edit the first post. At the top, add the word (solved) to the subject line.
Recuerda marcar el hilo como solucionado. Edita el primer post y agrega la palabra (Solucionado) en la línea del titulo (Subject)

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