Linux Mint and GPL license Violation

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Fragadelic
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Post by Fragadelic »

Looks like the kernel devs are making a step in the right direction. They are offering to make drivers for any hardware even those with NDA clauses.

Bravo Kernel Devs!!!

http://www.kroah.com/log/2007/01/29/#free_drivers
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hairy_Palms
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Post by hairy_Palms »

The American Government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level
from "Gung-ho Arrogance" to "Threaten Everyone" The only two higher levels they have are
"Invade Randomly" and "Friendly Fire Extravaganza"
The level was raised because George Bush was told ramadan was approaching and he thought it was a cruise missile
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bigbearomaha
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Post by bigbearomaha »

that's funny.
richard
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Linux Mint and GPL license Violation

Post by richard »

This monopolist, one world view , domination and control of computers by Microsoft is criminal .

The high cost , licensing, and registration of one machine only. . . mentality is crap. . .(excuse my language).

Until now Linux and or Unix have been the only 'free' choice and alternative . . to the profiters of this world. . .

The computer is just a tool.


Software is like a book in the library. . . I'm not trying to rewrite the book or become the author of someone else's work. I just want read, and extract the information and use the information. How many books can you find on the same subject in a library?

Programmers and book writers require a return on their work.That's fine. . . My question is: When does originality cease to be original? How many different books or software packages does one need write to accomplish the promote same goals or end?

This continual Version upgrade of software with lower Suds, 'whiter than white' mentality dupes people into spending more of their incomes on this spiraling out of control notion that we have to continue to provide programmers a livelihood so they can continue to steal our money from us by selling us this 'new and improved' mentality. . . it's all money down the drain. . . software has all become crap. . . especially if you have to pay for the rights to use it. . .

Computers in my mind have lost their real identity for the purpose they have been developed to do. . . .perform work. .. same time and money. . . . Instead they have cause us to loose more time, work, and money.

Computers have become crap. . . . something earlier generations of people could agree with me on. . .

End of Rant. ..

Richard
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Linux Mint and GPL license Violation

Post by richard »

One thing I might add that I forgot to say about Microsoft. . . .and all those software profiteers (gangsters) who follow in Microsoft's footsteps , is that I for one am tired of having my wallet and hard earned money and computer held hostage to their licensing schemes and whims concerning my paid usage of their proprietary software. I hope 'Vista' begins to turn people's heads the other direction toward 'free' unrestrictive software alternatives.

Richard
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clem
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Post by clem »

Hi,

If you distribute it yourself why not just give a written offer as mentioned by the GPL?

We don't only provide or own source code but also the source for the applications we distribute.

Note: The link to the FTP server is http://linuxmint.com/releases/Bea-2.1/source/ but it gives an access error. I'll try to fix with our host.

Clem
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clem
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Post by clem »

I don't think it has anything to do with the price. Anyway, the GPL is a real pain in the ... but it's also there for a reason and a very good one, so respecting it is the least we can do.

The links were fixed and you can access the source code here:

http://linuxmint.com/releases/Bea-2.1/source/
http://linuxmint.com/releases/Barbara-2.0/source/

Clem
Husse

Post by Husse »

Just a simple question:
Any risk that Mint will be thrown out from Ubuntus repositories?
If some license violation is found and so fort...
I think that might be "the only thing" that really threatens Mint
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clem
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Post by clem »

Hi Husse,

Please be more specific.. ??

Clem
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Post by Husse »

Well, if I understand this thread (and a thread at the Ubuntu forum, http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread. ... =linuxmint) some people are irritated because of alleged violaitons to the GPL by Mint.
Is there a risk that this can "piss of" some purists to the degree that Mint will be austrosized (not sure about the spelling, but what the pope can do if he does not like you)
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Post by scorp123 »

Husse wrote: some people are irritated because of alleged violaitons to the GPL by Mint.
Some people did never really read the GPL and hence do not understand that distributing closed-source components with a Linux distro simply is not illegal for as long as those closed-source components do not utilise GPL code in any way or form. Therefore as far as I can tell there simply are no "violations" of GPL in Mint (at least not in this context); other distributions are also shipping closed source components galore.

Those accusing Mint of "GPL violations" in this context and in those postings just prove that they in fact know zipp what they are rambling about. :lol:
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clem
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Post by clem »

Hi Husse,

There's a huge difference between distributing closed-source software on a CD and using GPL source code in a binary closed-source program.

We might "piss of" some purists by including some proprietary software in our distribution... but to be honest:
- extremists tend to be pissed off pretty easily anyway.
- people who are serious about the GPL usually "do" read the GPL.

Clem
PS: I suppose life would be boring without FUD :)
Husse

Post by Husse »

OK, from what I could understand (and understanding was hampered by all acronyms and referenses to more or less obscure sources) this GPL accusation is just FUD
//Edit
My fear is if those who believe it's not FUD starts to go after Mint (and other distros they don't like)
Let's just hope that the risk is not there.//
Long live Mint!
Last edited by Husse on Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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clem
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Post by clem »

The Bea source code was generated with a script that calls apt-get source on each package of the manifest. If you see anything missing please tell us the name of the package and we'll fix that asap.

Clem
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clem
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Post by clem »

Depends from where you see it. For instance you could say... we probably would have invented levitation by now if the wheel had been patented ;)

Ah no, I'm only kidding.

.. or am I ?


Clem,
actually we're working on it :wink:
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Post by scorp123 »

Sasquatch wrote: I must also confess my ignorance as to the contents of the GPL.
You should read it then so you really understand what is being talked about and why certain things do violate the GPL while others don't.
Sasquatch wrote: I know Linus got it only to prevent others from putting his free idea under a more restrictive license and effectively killing the free software in the womb.
Linus released his work in the middle of various UNIX wars and at the time of the famous "Berkeley University vs. AT&T" lawsuit. Hence he probably thought it would be best to put his stuff under the GPL which would prevent his code becoming "closed source" all of a sudden because someone claimed to have the rights on it (precisely what happened between "Berkeley vs. AT&T" when AT&T all of a sudden claimed: "All your code belong to us!" ... they were proven wrong though, but nevertheless this was quite damaging to UNIX back then ...)
Sasquatch wrote: For the kernel developers to even consider making it impossible to fully utilize my computer without paying them a license fee is appalling.
What precisely are you talking about ???? :? :shock: No kernel developer I know or ever heard of ever tried that. :shock: Can you please explain? :?
Sasquatch wrote: At this moment, the drivers for my card are available free from Nvidia, so I do not understand the conflict with the GPL.
See above. And please see this previous posting:
http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2604#2604

It would help if you read the license. The GPL clearly says that any code derived from GPL code must again be released under the GPL so that everyone may profit from the changes (and improvements?) added to the code. The binary Nvidia driver is linking into the GPL'd Linux kernel in order to be able to function (it cannot function otherwise). Some kernel developers see this as a GPL violation: One binary program cannot link into another binary program without taking over code (function calls, sub-routines, etc.) from each other. So one might argue that in the moment that the Nvidia driver links into the kernel it becomes derived code of code that was originally released under the GPL. But the Nvidia driver (especially the 3D part of it) is closed source and distributing it on a CD or other media would be illegal and a violation of the GPL.

Hence most Linux distros cannot ship with the Nvidia driver pre-installed in any way or form ... instead you as the user have to download the driver yourself somehow. As it is assumed that you the end-user won't be "distributing" your PC installation somehow, this is regarded as "grey area" even by Torvalds himself. It's sort of legal to install and run the Nvidia driver like this on your system for as long as you don't "distribute" that somehow (which would again be a violation of the GPL). Some kernel developers are rather cool about this, others like Greg Kroah-Hartmann are rather fanatic when it comes to this.

Check out his web-site (about in the middle of the page):
http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html

There you will see this:
Image

Sasquatch wrote: Including free software does not rob the company of income.
Precisely because people would still buy their hardware products.
Sasquatch wrote: Wonder who held the patent on the Wheel? Good thing it's expired by now.
You are wrong. There is a perfectly legal patent on the wheel which is even still valid!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1418165.stm
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiap ... lia.wheel/
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn965
http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Man_gets_ ... _the_WHEEL

:lol:
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Fragadelic
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Post by Fragadelic »

The code that actually links to the kernel is GPL.

This has never gone to court and until it goes to court and is proven one way or another, this will, as Linus himself has said, remain a gray area.
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Post by scorp123 »

Fragadelic wrote:This has never gone to court and until it goes to court and is proven one way or another, this will, as Linus himself has said, remain a gray area.
Bingo! But then again, this is precisely what many people don't understand and what the guy who opened this thread did not understand. He thought Mint is violating the GPL because it is shipping MP3 and DVD codecs and such ... which is total BS and just proves he got himself agitated over something he did not even know anything about.
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Post by scorp123 »

TwistedLincoln wrote:So it will always be okay to install and use proprietary kernel modules. So regardless of how the Nvidia driver works, it will always be okay for the end-user to install and use it.
Yes, but if people like Greg Hartmann get it their way then it might become illegal to even produce such drivers. You as a user you cannot install a driver if you cannot download it first ...
AlsaPhil

Post by AlsaPhil »

@zonamint

It would be very nice, you respect the ambient and the good manners of this forum.
Who are you to come here so oafish?...
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