Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

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cybervigilante
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Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by cybervigilante » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:51 pm

I noticed Mint 18.3 has a Backup Tool in addition to Timeshift. It does files, setting and contents of home directory but only lists apps. Is it redundant if I use Timeshift or should it be used in addition?

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by Cosmo. » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:06 pm

Short answer: No.

In Detail: TimeShift (TS) is made to save snapshots of the current state of the system - not including the user data. This means that in case, where a yesterday still working system does no longer work as it should, you can revert its state to the state of yesterday (provided, that a snapshot from yesterday does exist. It is essential for the usage, that user data are not included in the TS snapshots and following that they do not get reverted, if you revert the system's state. So in case of the above example all user data are still as you left them immediately before you did a revert. This does also include all user settings (e. g. appearance of the system, settings for the applications and more).

For backing up user data you need another program. The included backup program would theoretically be fine, actually it has numerous problems and limitations. I recommend for backing up user data Back in Time. This program is very powerful, very well configurable and can do backups fully automatically, if you want.

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by AndyMH » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:12 pm

I use timeshift for backing up the system, i.e. / and backintime for backing up /home. Both available in software manager. Easy to use, both set to do automatic backups on a daily basis.
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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:32 pm

I favor the BackInTime system,

but there is a MAJOR problem with it.

It does NOT see an ext4 USB HDD

If this can't be fixed, I will have to continue using Nemo manually

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by slipstick » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:46 pm

It sees my ext4 partitions on my USB HDD just fine.
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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:01 pm

slipstick wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:46 pm
It sees my ext4 partitions on my USB HDD just fine.
it isn't for me, in the menu, there are two versions of it.

I have tried both, the 1st one, and just now the 'Root' version.

Image


and this is what it sees for me.

Image

and I'm on 18.3
Kernel: 4.13.0-38-generic x86_64 (64 bit)
Desktop: Cinnamon 3.6.7 Distro: Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia


and this is the USB connected:

Image


Just to exclude system issues, I ran Update Manager and all is "up to snuff"

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by slipstick » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:13 pm

I never use the 'Root' version - Timeshift saves everything owned by root. I only use BIT for home and Data.

My snapshots are saved to /media/steve/Ext_Backup where Ext_Backup is an ext4 partition on my USB HDD.
Screenshot.png
Last edited by slipstick on Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by sdibaja » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:35 pm

I find LuckyBackup a bit more user friendly. Defaults are fine, but you can tweak it a bunch.
just another frontend for rsync
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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:39 pm

I agree, did not think the Root Version would be necessary at all, simply because all we are doing is copying the Documents, downloads, pictures, videos

I need more information on what is going on here with my particular BackInTime install...

so far, my 18.3 has been rock stable.

I decided to give Read/Write permissions to everything on the extUSB drive, will see how that works out.

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by slipstick » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:47 pm

OK - I finally remembered how to attach screenshots. Here's my USB HDD with three directories. BIT snapshots in Ext_Backkup.
Screenshot2.png
The Win7_Backup partition is ntfs, the other two are ext4.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they ain't.

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:58 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:35 pm
I find LuckyBackup a bit more user friendly. Defaults are fine, but you can tweak it a bunch.
just another frontend for rsync
Bingo! Give the man a High Five :D

BackInTime uninstalled


Image


that is the result of backing up all of my Personal files to ext4-USB-3


Image

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by Petermint » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:29 pm

The real test of a backup is to wipe your system and restore. Has anyone tested a restore using any of the options mention here?

I developed a working backup of my whole machine using rsync. Now I use Timeshift. Timeshift uses rsync internally but does not display the command it generates. I researched what Timeshift generates and it seems to generate a similar backup. The problem is comparing the two backups when both are a terabyte.

There are system directories you exclude because they do not contain permanent data and some contain broken entries due to stupid design ideas in Linux. I think timeshift should highlight what it leaves out. A directory that contains junk today might contain important data from the next application you install or the next version of Debian.

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by sammiev » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:33 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:35 pm
I find LuckyBackup a bit more user friendly. Defaults are fine, but you can tweak it a bunch.
just another frontend for rsync
Been using LuckyBackup for years, it just works. :D

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by slipstick » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:11 pm

Petermint wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:29 pm
I developed a working backup of my whole machine using rsync. Now I use Timeshift. Timeshift uses rsync internally but does not display the command it generates.
He tells you in the user manual:

Code: Select all

Under the Hood
The following commands are used for actually creating and restoring the snapshot. The
arguments have been simplified for clarity.
Creating RSYNC snapshots
rsync -aii --recursive --verbose --delete --force --stats
--delete-excluded
--link-dest='2016-11-05_13-01-47/localhost/'
--log-file='2016-12-11_21-57-53/rsync-log'
--exclude-from='2016-12-11_21-57-53/exclude.list'
--delete-excluded '/' '2016-12-11_21-57-53/localhost/'
Rsync has the following basic syntax:
rsync [options] <source> <destination>
For creating snapshots the source is the root filesystem (​ '/'​ ) and destination is the
directory where we will store the snapshot data
(​ '2016-12-11_21-57-53/localhost/'​ )
--link-dest​ is the previous snapshot that we will use to hard-link existing
(unchanged) files to the new snapshot directory.


--exclude-from​ specifies path of the text file that contains the exclude filters.

Code: Select all

Restoring RSYNC snapshots
rsync -avir --force --delete --delete-after
--log-file='2016-12-11_21-55-00/rsync-log'
--exclude-from='2016-12-11_21-55-00/exclude.list'
'2016-12-11_21-57-53/localhost/' '/'
The restore command use the snapshot directory as the source and the file system root as
the destination for syncing files.
After the files are synched, the bootloader will be re-installed and GRUB menu will be
updated. The file systems will also be checked for errors and corrected automatically by
running ​ fsck -y​ on each file system.
You can get a manual here:
http://www.teejeetech.in/2016/12/timesh ... anual.html


Petermint wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:29 pm
There are system directories you exclude because they do not contain permanent data and some contain broken entries due to stupid design ideas in Linux. I think timeshift should highlight what it leaves out. A directory that contains junk today might contain important data from the next application you install or the next version of Debian.
You can see what is left out from the Timeshift settings menu -> Filters -> Summary. This will display the exclude list.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they ain't.

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slipstick
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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by slipstick » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:22 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:35 pm
I find LuckyBackup a bit more user friendly. Defaults are fine, but you can tweak it a bunch.
just another frontend for rsync
I thought about using LuckyBackup, but didn't because I was concerned when I read this on the web site http://luckybackup.sourceforge.net/:

Code: Select all

note on development progress

Unfortunately the development of luckybackup is almost frozen.
I will not stop supporting this project but please have in mind that this will affect future fixes of known bugs as well as the implementation of new features. 
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they ain't.

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Re: Is Backup Tool Redundant to Timeshift?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:35 pm

LuckyBackup ran like a charm, and it does indeed find the new files that I have put on this laptop, and they show up on my USB drive. Those were originally put there "by Nemo" manually AFTER I bricked the MDR/Grub.

I used a LiveCD to get access to the partition and copy them to the USB.... at least 99.8% of the HDD was not damaged.

The pix below, are the new stuff that I just loaded onto the laptop, I always save to Downloads first, and then install from there. I never install from 'online' as you can't find that place usually again, plus I always make text documents showing the chksums, and the info relating to that install. Each app gets its' own folder.


Image


LuckyBackup works just fine the way it is today...

I have 3 backups.

Clonezilla image of each partition
A full blown Image of the HDD that is now useless, but I will keep it.

Timeshift is run "on demand" every time something material has changed, and each one is documented as to what that Timeshift is relative to.

And a full blown backup of my Personal files, of which now LuckyBackup makes much easier for me. it was all manual before.

I also have a Grsync script that Austin.Texas wrote for me, but it takes all night to run... as it is very aggressive.

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