So how far off is LMDE 3?

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LMDE 2 support ends on 1-1-2019
kevinthefixer
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by kevinthefixer » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:45 pm

mzsade wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:19 pm
Since my laptop crashed and i've been forced to rely on this android....how about a mint for android, that has got to be a commercially viable project..
Linux for Droids has been attempted, but AFAIK never very successfully. Almost always very slow, usually problems with hardware drivers (what good is a touchscreen device if the touchscreen doesn't work?). I have an Asus TF700 with a Debian installation on it, it barely works at all and in fact I'm about to uninstall it. Android works pretty well on such machines, I recommend you stick with it. Now, restoring your laptop and installing Mint, whatever version, sounds feasible.

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ChrisMW
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by ChrisMW » Wed May 09, 2018 5:18 am

After thinking about this long and hard, I've decided to move over to Debian Buster / 10 / testing.

I liked the original LMDE, because it was a little closer to Debian and a little ahead of pack. With LMDE 2 that changed, as a system, it was rock solid. But lately I noticed that keeping functional was requiring more and more effort. The Jessie backports helped, but being oldstable meant an slow but steady increase of having to work around things. Seeing LMDE 3 was going to be a Debian 9 base, and MATE (which I really like) was rumoured to move back to an older version, my reason for liking LMDE required re-examining.

So a couple of weeks back, I leaped into Buster. I'd be lying if I said it was just like LMDE. I had to tweak / install a little more. But because I had the LMDE/LMDE2 experience, it wasn't anything to worry about. Now, with the new system up and running, I'm happy with the choice. It's still very stable, not a single hiccup so far, it is more volatile, lots of updates every week, requiring a new restarts. But works very well.

However, the idea of LMDE is great, more bare metal, more closely aligned with Debian. I've had too many issues over the years with Ubuntu's additions for that to be a consideration for me. But I think LMDE should be a little more in the forefront than the main distro. It is now turning into the more stable and boring cousin. LMDE has taught me a lot, I'm not a distro person, I wanted a platform that is primarily stable, but maintainble. I'm not a terminal shy person, but need the platform to work well in wide range of environments. I wanted it Debian based, not Ubuntu based. LMDE did all of that. I was so well served and donated a couple of times. I got a little wiser. What I am currently missing is a clear target audience for LMDE 3. I feel I'm not in the target audience, but struggle to think of who is. LMDE was always the niche, but it seems no longer to be my niche. Still, perhaps if I keep on learning, I might one day return and help out.....

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja » Wed May 09, 2018 9:36 am

ChrisMW wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 5:18 am
After thinking about this long and hard, I've decided to move over to Debian Buster / 10 / testing.

>snip<
Congrats! Welcome to Debian, Buster, and Mate.
I too was a long time fan of LMDE. For me Stability is on the top of my list. We lost that on May 1, 2017 so I was forced to reinstall... and I moved on.
I vote Debian Stretch Mate for the normal user... set it and forget it, like a rock.

Buster is good, almost ready for prime time. I have one system that has been running Buster 24/7 for several months. Sometimes it is quirky, but usually not. I am tempted to update the others from Stretch, but not yet.

I do wish Linux Mint well. Some of the innovation is useful for me.

PS: if you want some excitement try Sid, the experimental branch.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by jameskga » Sat May 12, 2018 1:17 am

To answer ChrisMW's closing remark, regarding his uncertainty as to the intended/target audience of LMDE:

My understanding is the Mint team - not wanting to keep all their eggs in one basket - maintains LMDE because they want a Debian-based alternative for the OS, just in case Canonical or Ubuntu goes belly-up. So if that happens, Mint and all the people who depend on the OS won't be stranded.

I am personally looking forward to the release of LMDE3 because I adore Cinnamon, but have issues with the amount of RAM the main edition eats up, as compared to Cinnamon's RAM usage on LMDE. So I hope LMDE3 meets my quality-of-life and efficiency needs.
LMDE 2 Cinnamon (64-bit)
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ChrisMW
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by ChrisMW » Sat May 12, 2018 3:53 am

My understanding is the Mint team - not wanting to keep all their eggs in one basket - maintains LMDE because they want a Debian-based alternative for the OS, just in case Canonical or Ubuntu goes belly-up. So if that happens, Mint and all the people who depend on the OS won't be stranded.
In which case it would make more sense to base yourself on Debian and find a way to retrofit the stuff you like from Ubuntu, wouldn't it? Which brings me back to the same concern, it is not a clear choice when 2 distro's are to many users, very similar. As to the DE, my main interest is MATE, but any distro should allow me to choose. Which is why Debian 10 won over Debian 9, newer MATE. In addition, every upgrade should move me forward. With LMDE 2 and Jessie backports, my kernel was at 4.09, with Debian 9, it is, 4.09. :? My hardware required something that came with 4.10+ (I forget the details), so in order to not have to go straight to Stretch backports, it seemed to make more sense jumping forward more.

Then there's the systemd discussion. I have no real preference, but work on the idea that the larger the user base, the better the distro will function, so if Debian and Ubuntu move to systemd, it makes sense to follow that. Unless you're prepared to cope with the fall-out yourself, which I am not. My LMDE 2 was already converted to systemd, and personally I thought it improved startup speed. And yes, it does take some getting used to and I also have read up on why some don't like it. My motivation is different.

It's all about choice, which is good. And so far it seems that LMDE 3's main USP is that you get an up-to-date Cinnamon on Debian 9. O, and a better login window (IMO) with MDM. I did manage to install LMDE's MDM on Debian 10 (a VM), but as it conflicts with another package with the same acronym, for my main system, I stuck with LightDM. LMDE 2 is just nicer in some places, however it is not that much nicer that I wish to trade it for remaining on a older software set that makes some of my requirements a little tricky to meet. But it still feels like the mind says to leave, but my heart is struggling. Weird this sentimentality.... :)

Perhaps an idea for LMDE 3 would be to create a repository that augments Debian, rather than replace it, as a place to offer the latest MATE, Cinnamon, MDM, and some of the other bits and only go for a full repo if the Ubuntu route fails. The reduction in maintenance work might worth such an approach. I don't know.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by catweazel » Sat May 12, 2018 3:57 am

ChrisMW wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 3:53 am
... it would make more sense to base yourself on Debian and find a way to retrofit the stuff you like from Ubuntu, wouldn't it?
Why?
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ChrisMW
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by ChrisMW » Sat May 12, 2018 11:24 am

Because if your objective is to ensure continuity in case your main distro loses its base, all you need to maintain is the delta with the other base. Rather than maintain a second complete repository. Seems less work to me. You would then free up man power to focus on the main objective.
Of course this is assuming that's your objective. In a way it makes sense, given the attention LMDE gets, but it doesn't make sense if you´re aiming to provide two distinct distro's. Which then means it needs a good USP, to be a real alternative. As I don't know that, I can't be sure. All I observe is that the USP is not that clear to me, when earlier is was. That can be because I've changed, but it can also be there is less of a LMDE vision.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja » Sat May 12, 2018 11:35 am

@ChrisMW

I too have little use for Cinnamon. The look and feel is enough.
I don't find the features I am accustomed to, and the menu system is just too many clicks and too much keyboard work.
Not my style, thanks. I will stick with Mate.
The fact that it is faster and more responsive is a bonus, but that is not the driving force for using Mate.

Debian has live non-free ISOs for Cinnamon, Gnome, KDE, Lxde, Mate, and Xfce.
My "ideal" LMDE would be a Live Installer that would give a choice of any of the above, and include a short list of options.
...for Mate that would be the addition of Mate Extras, Mate Tweak, auto login, Gparted, and Mintstick.

The rest of the MintTools (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint#MintTools) do not interest me much.

*I really don't want the the X-Apps installed by default. ( https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_sarah_cin ... atsnew.php ) "...in many cases, they're very similar..." Yes, similar, but I feel the native Mate apps are superior.

In closing, I do like Linux Mint and LMDE. However I have found that there is a much bigger world out there.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by KBD47 » Sat May 12, 2018 5:03 pm

Perhaps an idea for LMDE 3 would be to create a repository that augments Debian, rather than replace it, as a place to offer the latest MATE, Cinnamon, MDM, and some of the other bits and only go for a full repo if the Ubuntu route fails. The reduction in maintenance work might worth such an approach. I don't know.
I like that idea, but they would still need to test the updated DE against Debian so they might as well release it. I think there is justified frustration that LMDE gets so little love. Thing is Debian Stable doesn't need much love, the only thing you can do to break it is add newer packages onto an old base and there comes the danger of FrankenDebian. I ruined a nice install of Debian Stable with MATE awhile back by trying to run a newer version of MATE on it. With all the apt-pinning and testing needed I get why Mint is going with a single DE (Cinnamon) on LMDE.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja » Sat May 12, 2018 6:19 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 5:03 pm
Perhaps an idea for LMDE 3 would be to create a repository that augments Debian, rather than replace it, as a place to offer the latest MATE, Cinnamon, MDM, and some of the other bits and only go for a full repo if the Ubuntu route fails. The reduction in maintenance work might worth such an approach. I don't know.
I like that idea, but they would still need to test the updated DE against Debian so they might as well release it. I think there is justified frustration that LMDE gets so little love. Thing is Debian Stable doesn't need much love, the only thing you can do to break it is add newer packages onto an old base and there comes the danger of FrankenDebian. I ruined a nice install of Debian Stable with MATE awhile back by trying to run a newer version of MATE on it. With all the apt-pinning and testing needed I get why Mint is going with a single DE (Cinnamon) on LMDE.
If you really Need To have the latest Mate enable Buster repos to. I have one machine running Buster, there is not much in the way of new features with 1.20... and you already get the security updates using Stretch aka Stable.
I do agree, LMDE ought to be closer to Debian. What we get now is messy and incomplete.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by KBD47 » Sat May 12, 2018 6:44 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 6:19 pm
If you really Need To have the latest Mate enable Buster repos to. I have one machine running Buster, there is not much in the way of new features with 1.20... and you already get the security updates using Stretch aka Stable.
I do agree, LMDE ought to be closer to Debian. What we get now is messy and incomplete.
That was awhile back. I think the weather update broke on the older version, so I messed up my install trying to get the newer version of the DE.
I keep one machine on Debian Stable MATE and no longer mess around or break it :)
I have a separate laptop just for testing and running newer distros. I don't mind breaking things on that one.
I think it must be a challenge to run a newer version of Cinnamon on Debian Stable. Maybe Mint should have two Cinnamon LMDE spins, one Stable with some nice Minty tweaks, but unbreakable. And another based on SID clearly marked as experimental. I would save a partition for that :)

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Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by axisofevil » Sat May 19, 2018 1:18 pm

Is there a procedure to switch distros from LMDE2 Cinnamon to Debian [Stretch] Cinnamon?
Ideally as an upgrade, rather than an install.
I appreciate that the graphics themes etc would be somewhat inferior.

I'm not planning on actually doing this - but a fallback option would be nice to have!

Systemd is a fly in the ointment though.

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by zorzi » Sat May 19, 2018 1:35 pm

Is there a procedure to switch distros from LMDE2 Cinnamon to Debian [Stretch] Cinnamon?
Hello. This may be difficult, because of break risks with removing specific mint repos and packages. I had tried to convert a LMDE 2 Mate to a pure Debian with no success. You should do a clean Debian Stretch install with Cinnamon.

Though, if you really want to tweak, maybe you could try to upgrade to LMDE 3 by changing your sources list ? I see that Cindy repos seem to be available. I'm curious about that:

http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Cindy
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Edition 3

Post by sdibaja » Sat May 19, 2018 1:53 pm

zorzi wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 1:35 pm
Is there a procedure to switch distros from LMDE2 Cinnamon to Debian [Stretch] Cinnamon?
maybe you could try to upgrade to LMDE 3 by changing your sources list ? I see that Cindy repos seem to be available. I'm curious about that:

http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Cindy
the repos Will conflict, different files with the same name. We need to learn about Apt Pinning... so we would be setting priorities for what to grab from where. Mint does that now, and I am sure they will continue with LMDE3.
I no expert, it befuddled me despite the excellent documentation. https://wiki.debian.org/AptPreferences

I have decided to stay with Debian Stretch/Stable (non-free), and then bastardize it with the few bits and pieces that are not already in the Debian Repos. https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... -firmware/

another option is to use Buster (testing)... and from my personal experience on one machine it is satisfactory, but not suitable for production.
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBuster

PS: we are all still guessing how LMDE3 will be crafted. It may actually be Easier than working with LMDE2.
***fallbacks are great! that is the very reason that Mint even has a Debian version.

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The Future

Post by mhwelsh » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:55 am

What is the latest on LMDE3?


martin welsh

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Re: The Future

Post by jimallyn » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:48 am

My understanding is that it's kind of a background project until the final versions of 19 are released.
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Re: The Future

Post by altair4 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:58 am

The past is history
The future is a mystery
But today is a gift
That's why they call it the present.
Please add a [SOLVED] at the end of your original subject header if your question has been answered and solved.

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Re: The Future

Post by mhwelsh » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:09 am

Thanks for the info.
Nice to see that you are still here Altair4.

martin welsh

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Re: The Future

Post by persistentpenguin » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:49 am

Was searching for the same info: What is the ETA on LMDE 3 Cindy?

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Re: The Future

Post by catweazel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:52 am

persistentpenguin wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:49 am
Was searching for the same info: What is the ETA on LMDE 3 Cindy?
viewtopic.php?f=242&t=270894&p=1481501#p1479386
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