Canonical quality control

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gm10
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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by gm10 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:22 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:04 pm
So gm10 was the 4.15.0-28 kernel a dependency of package linux-generic or linux-image-generic at the time with bionic-proposed. Or was it in linux-image-generic-hwe-16.04 or linux-image-generic-hwe-16.04-edge in xenial-proposed? Ubuntu does kernel updates differently than Linux Mint, most Mint users may just have linux-kernel-generic installed for a kernel meta package.
My statements were about bionic-proposed, as stated in the OP.

I don't understand what you mean by "Ubuntu does kernel updates differently than Linux Mint". We get all kernel updates directly from Ubuntu, so we are doing it exactly like they do. The only distribution specific kernel meta package we have is linux-kernel-generic, the only use of which is to provide the release kernel, it receives no updates.

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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by JeremyB » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:34 pm

These are the linux meta packages installed on my Ubuntu 18.04 laptop

Code: Select all

ii  linux-generic                              4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers
ii  linux-headers-generic                      4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Generic Linux kernel headers
ii  linux-image-generic                        4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Generic Linux kernel image
ii  linux-signed-generic                       4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Complete Signed Generic Linux kernel and headers (dummy transitional package)
I will update with those installed on my Linux Mint 19 laptop, unless you want to see if any of those packages are installed

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Pjotr
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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by Pjotr » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:39 pm

The first three meta packages in your list, are installed in my Mint 19 as well. By default.
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gm10
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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by gm10 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:48 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:34 pm
These are the linux meta packages installed on my Ubuntu 18.04 laptop

Code: Select all

ii  linux-generic                              4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers
ii  linux-headers-generic                      4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Generic Linux kernel headers
ii  linux-image-generic                        4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Generic Linux kernel image
ii  linux-signed-generic                       4.15.0.28.30                        amd64        Complete Signed Generic Linux kernel and headers (dummy transitional package)
I will update with those installed on my Linux Mint 19 laptop, unless you want to see if any of those packages are installed
Excuse me for possibly still missing the point - what are you trying to say? Those are Ubuntu's packages, we all have them (except for the last one since it's just a transitional package, you can remove that). linux-generic is the actual meta package that pulls the rest of the kernel in. As seen from my Mint 19 laptop:

Code: Select all

$ apt show linux-generic
Package: linux-generic
Version: 4.15.0.28.30
Priority: optional
Section: kernel
Source: linux-meta
Origin: Ubuntu
Maintainer: Ubuntu Kernel Team <kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com>

Code: Select all

$ apt list --installed linux-generic
Listing... Done
linux-generic/bionic-proposed,now 4.15.0.28.30 amd64 [installed]

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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by JeremyB » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:54 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:39 pm
The first three meta packages in your list, are installed in my Mint 19 as well. By default.
The first one shows this in my Linux Mint 19 without bionic-proposed enabled

Code: Select all

apt policy linux-generic
linux-generic:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 4.15.0.23.25
  Version table:
     4.15.0.23.25 500
        500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-updates/main amd64 Packages
        500 http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic-security/main amd64 Packages
     4.15.0.20.23 500
        500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu bionic/main amd64 Packages

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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by catweazel » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:27 pm

michael louwe wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:53 pm
Maybe Canonical Inc/Mark Shuttleworth should temporarily postpone or cancel the next releases, eg Ubuntu 18.10 and 18.04.1.
I think they's get slaughtered by the community and the press if they did that, and it would, in all likelihood, seriously impact the value of Canonical and its plans to go public.
A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. - Max Planck

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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by Pjotr » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:13 am

Let's not forget that kernel -24 doesn't malfunction on *all* hardware.... On my desktop (with SSD) for instance, the -24 works just fine. It's only my laptop (also with SSD) that has a big boot delay with the -24.

So the "kernel disaster" is probably not that huge. Sh** happens, that's what updates are for. It's just that Mint 19 by default no longer protects you from kernel updates and by default entirely relies on Timeshift. That takes some getting used to.
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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by thx-1138 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:24 am

gm10 wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:03 pm
Debian has already fixed it, yes. And properly, unlike Ubuntu so far.
Sh** happens, yes, but someone can't avoid though doing the comparison...

...and with Meltdown / Spectre, let's not forget the breakage that happened...it wasn't until 4.13.0-36 that things appeared to calm down.
(why implement 'selective' backporting & in-house-developed fixes for a number of revisions,
instead of just 'sync' with upstream in the first place? Especially since they already knew from before such was gonna happen...)

Even more questions as well...
https://github.com/teejee2008/ukuu/issu ... -387895385

Please do note that the above aren't meant as criticism (let alone 'badmouthing' - if one thing annoys me is the Red Hat this, Canonical that...)

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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by kc1di » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:03 am

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:13 am
Let's not forget that kernel -24 doesn't malfunction on *all* hardware.... On my desktop (with SSD) for instance, the -24 works just fine. It's only my laptop (also with SSD) that has a big boot delay with the -24.

So the "kernel disaster" is probably not that huge. Sh** happens, that's what updates are for. It's just that Mint 19 by default no longer protects you from kernel updates and by default entirely relies on Timeshift. That takes some getting used to.
-24 is working well on my hardware as well. no problem boot time is reasonable only problem I'm having is with my internetconnection timing out at times which it never did with older kernels. so that may be a glitch but it's so random I haven't been able to pin it down yet. (it may be my ISP and nothing to do with the kernel at all. )
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Re: Canonical quality control

Post by KBD47 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:52 am

18.04 is reminding me of the bad old days with Ubuntu. 14.04 and 16.04 were reasonably stable. What happened in the past is that many Mint users stuck with the default updates of skipping the problem updates from Ubuntu. I really wish Mint had stuck with that. Now that Ubuntu is dropping the ball Mint is taking a hit. A stable OS should not be prone to breakage. It looks bad when a newbie comes to Linux only to run a few updates and have a broken system. LTS especially should be more reliable.

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