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Tater
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Hello Cruel World!

Post by Tater » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:47 am

I have come here in hope. Hope that this time I will actually get a linux distro to work. :lol:

I started playing with computers a long, long time ago on a brand new and fancy Apple IIe, learning some Apple Basic. I later played with DOS and Windows. I dabbled with Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP, Vista, 7. What little of 8 and 10 I have seen makes me pretty sure I do not want to go there when 7 is abandoned.

I have very little direct linux exposure, just kiosk type implementations where I ran a few set commands and entered a few parameters to make the equipment do the thing it was programmed to do. Stuff like pointing satellite dishes and telling boxes to talk to each other. A step past taking money out of an ATM skill wise, to be honest. I always have been interested in linux but every time I have started to play around I have quickly failed.

I have killed a linux install by trying to install a program. I have successfully, I think, installed a program and then could not for the life of me figure out how to run it. All my searching on the web left me more confused than when I started. I would enter a search string and wade through page after page of forums and "help" pages and realize that I did not know or understand anything that they were talking about.

I can go into the registry of a Windows machine and manually remove all of a viruses hooks and I can use the command line in Windows comfortably, but I can't even install and run a program in linux? Nor can I make heads or tails of the "help" available? I likened it to walking into the middle of a conversation that is being had in a language you only vaguely understand. My last attempt was 8 years ago.

I came across my old Dell Latitude D830 the other day and I thought: Well, this isn't too old to try running linux on. So here I am.

The D830 has 2 gb Ram, 2ghz Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 and an 80 gb HDD, so it should be ok for the purpose. I did a clean install of Linux Mint 18.1 Mate on it and everything seems to be happy. The drivers all seemed to have installed. WiFi hooked up without drama which is actually an improvement over the Windows XP that was on the laptop. I selected update mirrors and shut it down because my power supply was getting hot enough to cook on. It is underpowered (65w) and I have ordered a 90w one.

Once I have the new power supply I will be trying to see if I can actually install a program without killing the OS. Maybe I'll even be able to figure out how to run it afterward!

My intention is to set it up like my Windows 7 machine: Same browsers and programs with access to the same files and folders so I can determine if I can live with linux as my operating environment. I don't do any gaming, I don't install very many programs (usually open source when I do, so linux won't be limiting factor there) and I don't have any Windows only programs that I have to have (there is always Wine, I suppose).

That is about it. I am going to see how many installs of the OS it takes to get to the point where I can do basic linux. I have my Linux Mint 18.1 Mate bootable USB standing ready and I am not afraid to use it.
It isn't what I don't know that troubles me.

Currently brutalizing Linux Mint 18.1 Mate on a Dell Latitude D830 Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 / 2 GHz w/ 2 gb Ram and 80 gb HDD

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Pierre
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by Pierre » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:02 am

welcome to our forum
:D

you already have a basic replacement for that win-xp
8)
and most of your programs, should already be installed, by default.

the thing is, that you - Don't have to modify this LinuxMint in the same way's that you did with your windows system.
- try to use it - as supplied . . . .
Image
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.

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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by tdockery97 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:10 am

Welcome Tater. I think you will find things on Mint to be more straightforward do-able than many other linux distros. Happy Minting!
LMDE 3 Cindy

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Moem
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by Moem » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:16 am

Tater wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:47 am
My last attempt was 8 years ago.
I think you will find that Linux has come a long way since then. Don't jump in at the deep end; start off by using Mint with the programs that it comes with (many people don't even need anything beyond that) and after that, see what good stuff you can find in the Software Manager.
Welcome aboard, you may be in for a pleasant surprise!
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

Tater
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by Tater » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:30 am

Pierre wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:02 am
welcome to our forum
:D

you already have a basic replacement for that win-xp
8)
and most of your programs, should already be installed, by default.

the thing is, that you - Don't have to modify this LinuxMint in the same way's that you did with your windows system.
- try to use it - as supplied . . . .
Part of what I want to do is learn linux, so I will have to do some modification! :D

As I have been reading some of the content on here I have realized that linux has become easier to work with in some important regards. And,there seems to be more focus on helping out the novices. I am hoping that I can learn the conventions of how things work without sacrificing too many installs to the OS.

One of the things that I am looking for information on is the "file geography" of linux. I know how DOS and Windows organize files and directories, but linux seems to be very different. When I find discussions talking about where things go it seems like they are talking about where the old woman on the corner puts her collected knickknacks: The files could go anywhere you feel like. I either am not understanding what they are saying, or linux has some pretty loosey goosey, and disorganized, file conventions. I have to think it's the former. Given the way my brain works I think I need to understand this for linux to make any sense.
It isn't what I don't know that troubles me.

Currently brutalizing Linux Mint 18.1 Mate on a Dell Latitude D830 Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 / 2 GHz w/ 2 gb Ram and 80 gb HDD

DAMIEN1307
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:46 am

hi tater and welcome to the forum...i notice you mentioned "file geopgraphy"...LM 18.1 Mate uses Caja...

"Caja is the official file manager for the MATE desktop. It allows for browsing directories, as well as previewing files and launching applications associated with them. It is also responsible for handling the icons on the MATE desktop. It works on local and remote filesystems. Caja is a fork of Nautilus."

so this should get you started in looking up some of this regarding the file manager not only here in the forum but also in your google search...also there is a site called "easy linux" that is run by one of our forum members that is a veritable cornucopia of linux knowledge...ive supplied the link below...just copy and paste it in your browser address bar...enjoy...DAMIEN

Code: Select all

https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/
ORDO AB CHAO

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phd21
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by phd21 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:56 am

Hi Tater,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux Mint and its excellent forum!

I just read your post and the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

It would help to know more about your system setup. If you run "inxi -Fxzd" from the console terminal prompt, highlight the results, copy and paste them back here, that should provide enough information.

You did not mention which application program that you tried to install that you think "killed a Linux install"?

As for how Linux Mint stores files and folders, I don't think that is very different from any other operating system. There are folders for Documents, Pictures, Downloads, Music, Videos, etc... and you can create your own. And there are file managers to browse folders and files and where you can perform related file management tasks (copy, move, paste, delete, create new folder, etc...).

As for how operating system folders are setup, well that is different on every operating system. There are also some differences with accessing files and folders using a console terminal prompt (similar to a DOS or Command prompt in MS Windows) which can take a little getting used to like:
- in Linux you use a forward slash not a backslash like in MS Windows for paths to files and folders
"c:\Documents" in MS Windows versus just "/Documents" in Linux or "/home/YourUserName/Documents" or "~/Documents".

- drives and their partitions are designated differently. In MS Windows, you have C> (c drive), D> (d drive), etc... whereas in Linux you have "sda" for the first drive and "sda1" for the first partition on that drive like C> drive, "sda2" for the second partition on that drive like D> drive, etc... If there is a second drive, then it would be called "sdb" and its partitions would be "sdb1", "sdb2", etc...

- And, Linux is more secure than other operating systems and uses file and folder permissions to read and write and or share them. These "user" permissions are set by default for user's "/Home" folder and anything within that folder and the root folders have restricted access as do any other Linux drives and their partitions which requires the user to change permissions on other drives and their partitions including USB sticks and USB external drives using Linux file systems.



Searching for "new Linux Ubuntu user tutorials" is a good place to start because the main Linux Mint systems are based on Ubuntu. You can and should read the Linux Mint manual and the version "release notes". You can search for "Linux Mint tutorials" or more specifically by edition and version like "Linux Mint 19 Cinnamon tutorial", "Linux Mint 19 Mate tutorial", "Linux Mint 19 Xfce tutorial", etc...

The Complete Beginner's Guide To Ubuntu Linux
https://www.lifewire.com/beginners-guid ... tu-2205722

Ubuntu: A Beginner's Guide
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ubuntu-an ... ers-guide/

Ultimate Guide: Getting Started With Ubuntu | It's FOSS
https://itsfoss.com/getting-started-with-ubuntu/


Linux Mint tutorials - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp ... AeY_6jOYYo
.
.
.
*** The Linux File System Structure Explained
http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/the- ... -explained

Linux Filesystem Explained - Linux Mint Community
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/355

linux mint file system - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?ei=J32eW9 ... ofTG8iLTvU

Hope this helps ...
Last edited by phd21 on Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Phd21: Mint KDE 17.3 & 18.3, 64-bit Awesome OS, Ancient Dell OptiPlex 780 Core2Duo E8400 3GHz,4gb Ram,256gb SDD, Video: Intel 4 Graphics, DVD Lightscribe. Why I use KDE?:https://opensource.com/life/15/4/9-reasons-to-use-kde

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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by deepakdeshp » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:22 pm

Welcome to the forum.
If I have helped you solve a problem, please add [SOLVED] to your first post title, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
I am using Mint 19 Cinnamon 64 bit with AMD A8/7410 processor . Memory 8GB

Tater
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by Tater » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:36 pm

Thank you, everybody, for your warm greetings. :D

I just want to clarify that when I spoke of "file geography" I was specifically referring to the layout of the operating system files. That would obviously include the user's folders, but bin, dev, etc and all the rest have specific purposes and then appear to be nested inside other folders if I remember correctly, and have a purpose for being that way... That is what I want to understand. The reason I know how Windows works is because I had to know what was what and I went looking (and learning).

And, the program that killed my Redhat? (maybe Fedora?) install was Opera browser. I unpacked it into the file system the way I thought it was supposed to go and bzzt. Opera was also the program that I "successfully" installed on Ubuntu? that I couldn't find a way to run. Heck, I couldn't find where it had installed. A lot of years and life has passed since those frustrating episodes, the event I remember the minute details, I don't. :oops:

I have used various linux live CDs to do recovery and repair of Windows machines. I can move around and do the minimum. But as a real, live installed OS, we just haven't done well together. I want to change that.

While I wait for my new power supply to arrive, I will be reading through the links you folks have so kindly supplied. Thank you all again.
It isn't what I don't know that troubles me.

Currently brutalizing Linux Mint 18.1 Mate on a Dell Latitude D830 Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 / 2 GHz w/ 2 gb Ram and 80 gb HDD

Tater
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by Tater » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:28 pm

I decided to install Mint on a VM to play with while waiting for the power supply and so I could do some commands along with the stuff I was reading.

The VM has a tarball that it wants installed to aid with mouse and keyboard integration. So I spent an hour and a half not being able to install the package.

If I read one more tutorial telling me to do something without telling me how to do that something I'm going to scream. I'm off to see if I can find a "How to install a tarball for dummies" tutorial.
It isn't what I don't know that troubles me.

Currently brutalizing Linux Mint 18.1 Mate on a Dell Latitude D830 Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 / 2 GHz w/ 2 gb Ram and 80 gb HDD

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tenfoot
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by tenfoot » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:05 pm

You don't need to struggle with a tarball. Point your browser at https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads, Choose the Ubuntu v1.04 (and either 32 or 64 bit option), and download it to your computer. Click on open with gDebi and VB will be installed. If gDebi isn't installed, go to the Package Manager (Synaptic) and install it.
tenfoot
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by ud6 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:37 am

Tater wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:47 am
I have my Linux Mint 18.1 Mate bootable USB standing ready and I am not afraid to use it.
Welcome Tater. I'm hoping you are having success. Linux Mint is actually extremely user friendly, but because you a running on VM and installing tar balls I guess you are interested in doing some messing with the system.

When I started with linux I did all sorts of things, speeding up the boot, various partitions, installing various desktop environments. Of course now I'm lazy and just do a normal install (with seperate home partition and MATE desktop) add the wallpaper and icons I like and leave it like that.

Running as VM obviously may not be as smooth an experience.

Installation of software in Mint itself is best done through the software manager or synaptic (in menu), which helps resolve dependencies on other software. If you can't find it, the next best method is adding the repository (via synaptic or command line) so that when you refresh you can see it in software manager/synaptic. Next best method after that is to download the .deb package, and then open it (package manager should automatically open and also resolve dependencies).

When you come to do a proper install, you might want to install an office package similar to Microsoft office which has equivalent of word, excel, powerpoint. My recommendation (if you don't use macros) is WPS. Looks similar, similar menus, functionality and good integration with office. Latest version is good. When you open it first time it might say you have to install symbol fonts and direct you to Chinese site. Is pretty simple to do, but you'll need to translate the Chinese page in Google translaten eh eh. WPS is not available in mint software (cos proprietary) but the deb file is here: http://wps-community.org/download.html

There's different levels of users; that's why some posts have only brief instructions with telling you exactly how, but as a new user, people are likely to explain step by step if you have a specific problem, so never feel afraid to ask even if you think the question is stupid. I've been using mint for many years but I don't programme or do that much at the command line so my questions still tend to be basic things. Once I got used to the different way Linux works, I found it very difficult to go back to windows.. just because work flow better, now seems more intuitive, and greater flexibility and control.

Tater
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by Tater » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:20 am

ud6 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:37 am
Linux Mint is actually extremely user friendly, but because you a running on VM and installing tar balls I guess you are interested in doing some messing with the system.

Running as VM obviously may not be as smooth an experience.
Thanks for the greeting and encouragement. I am looking forward to getting the power supply so I can play with the OS on a machine, but I was surprised at how "lively" Mint is in a VM. I really want to learn linux, as in I want to know both how to do things and why they have to be done in the way they are. I was one of those kids that took apart a clock when I was little because I had to know what made it work.

So, when presented with a tarball by VMWare I accepted the challenge. I was aware it is one of the more "advanced" install options so, why not? I finally figured out what the "problem" was with installing it. The file was presented to me in a temporary folder and when I extracted it I was to choose where to put it. That was not clear from the dialog or the instructions. So I was trying to extract and execute it in the temp folder which does not work. It was that simple. If you are familiar with the OS I assume it would never occur to you to that someone could miss this basic concept, but here I am. :)

Frustrating? Absolutely. But I learned something and that means I can get frustrated by the next thing now, and learn something else. I don't really want to tweak the heck out of the OS, but I may do some messing with a VM linux after I get competent just so I can understand more with little inherent risk. That is part of the fun of this.

For me, the best part of getting a new thing is the relationship I develop with it through repair and maintenance. I was absolutely giddy about the first oil, filter and tire rotation I did on my "new" truck: The bonding experience was beginning. :lol:
It isn't what I don't know that troubles me.

Currently brutalizing Linux Mint 18.1 Mate on a Dell Latitude D830 Intel Core 2 Duo T7250 / 2 GHz w/ 2 gb Ram and 80 gb HDD

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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by lsemmens » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:35 am

Hi, tater. One of the beauties of MINT is that once installed, that is all you need. There is little that the average user will need outside of the default install. Try that with Windoze or Macinslosh. :D
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Re: Hello Cruel World!

Post by kc1di » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:58 am

Hello Tater and Welcome to Linux Mint Forums,
Enjoy :)
Easy tips : https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/
Linux Mint Installation Guide: http://linuxmint-installation-guide.rea ... en/latest/
Registered Linux User #462608

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