why are distros never updated?

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Schultz
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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by Schultz » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:16 am

leafymo1r92 wrote:
it's kinda annoying getting the installation done then greeted with 100+ updates available
It's still better and easier than installing Windows and their hundreds of updates. (I mean this answer seriously, not sarcastically.)

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MtnDewManiac
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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by MtnDewManiac » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:33 am

...along with everything else. The time factor, mainly - after I learned how to download the .ISO to my hard drive and install directly from there instead of USB or optical media, I saved enough time to more than make up for the time the computer then spends downloading and installing the initial updates (especially since I don't have to actually participate, beyond starting the process). But also in terms of the fact that, for me at least, Mint just plain works, lol. The time, the reboots, the time, the reboots, the... additional double-servings of each were merely annoying when I ran a Microsoft OS. But the occasional "whoops, it's not booting/working now" events were far more than mere annoyances. And also the ultimate in irony, since the vast majority of hardware is designed for the Microsoft OS world, and targeted specifically towards those users - while we linux users have to just hope everything will place nicely together :roll: .

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by AZgl1500 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:57 am

I usually just install the distro as it is, with the internet turned off.
IF, that distro warrants an update, then I will allow that to happen.
the actual data is usually small compared to the OEM distro, as it will only download for the language pack you are using or files that need to be updated.

I am on a Satellite connection, read that as "metered data"... 35 gB/month...

I don't waste gBytes on NetFlix, I stick to forums and the online newspapers.

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by all41 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:12 am

Hi again AZgl1500,
I am on a Satellite connection, read that as "metered data"... 35 gB/month
How are you getting along with viasat emotionally?
wow--only 35gb/mo data--do you get wee hours unlimited?
Guess it varies from area to area, I have 150gb/mo allowance plan--but only 12 MB speed.
Mostly I get much better than this except during prime-time.

I keep a sync copy of /var/cache/apt/archives on ext hd to use for future install/reinstall without needing to redownload

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by all41 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:29 am

I would like to refocus on the op topic--sorry I deviated.
With a fixed release .iso we all start with the same base files.
No questions re which files we started with.
Can you imagine someone with Mint 19 Cinnamon.03.14.18 download asking for support? Which packages would you imagine them to have--
as opposed to your Mint 19 Cinnamon.02-17-18 download?
Make since?

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by MtnDewManiac » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:21 am

In that hypothetical situation, wouldn't the very first thing you'd naturally advise, as part of the support process be, "Update to Mint 19 Cinnamon.12-04-18 (and counting)," so as to be sure that the person asking for help had the current versions of everything? Probably solve 86.3% of all issues right there, lol.

But, yes, a bit of a nightmare of sorts.

There is no perfect solution. There is only what works best for the largest percentage - and the developer of the project. Which seems to be the status quo. So this is one of those kinds of debates that'll never go anywhere. Like arguing about whether General Motors should put wings and propellers on its vehicles in order to help alleviate traffic jams - it isn't going to do it, and that won't change even if someone thinks it's a good idea. Step one: Make the thing profitable (in money, time, benefit to some portion of society, or whatever "currency" the one in charge considers important).

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by gm10 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:45 am

MtnDewManiac wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:49 pm
in other words, a complete functioning operating system) that is expected to be perfectly usable by every person who wants to do so, regardless of their specific combination of different brands/models/eras of hardware.
That there is the salient point. It will never be perfect for everybody but the goal is to have the installation image as a known-good snapshot of the system.

For example, during testing of the 19.1 iso it was discovered that the installer would fail in a certain situation. The installer hadn't been changed, but one of the system components had. It took quite a while to trace the cause of that, and it contributed to delaying the start of the 19.1 beta by a day.

If you are worried about wasted bandwidth from having to download updates during/after installation, consider that you'd be wasting even more of your bandwidth and time if the entire ISO didn't work. That's why these things get tested, and that takes time and effort.

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:37 pm

all41 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:12 am
Hi again AZgl1500,
I am on a Satellite connection, read that as "metered data"... 35 gB/month
How are you getting along with viasat emotionally?
wow--only 35gb/mo data--do you get wee hours unlimited?
Guess it varies from area to area, I have 150gb/mo allowance plan--but only 12 MB speed.
Mostly I get much better than this except during prime-time.

I keep a sync copy of /var/cache/apt/archives on ext hd to use for future install/reinstall without needing to redownload
Just a new comment, we are doing pretty well with the ViaSat connection.
We are still using the lowest tier at 25Mbps and it is giving us all we need.

It is so much faster than any other locally available internet option....
Being rural is a PITA when you are miles away from any Fiber cable...

ViaSat is apparently, now the largest satellite provider to remote areas, if what I am reading in this blog indicates.

that new satellite they put up, must be one monster of a bandwidth capable piece of machinery.


https://corpblog.viasat.com/community-w ... nd-beyond/

I have the newer ViaSat-2 modem which is capable of providing speeds up to around 200Mbps
My local rep showed me a SpeedText indicating very close to 200 with his 150Mbps service...


https://corpblog.viasat.com/viasat-2-se ... ss-router/

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:35 pm

Just how big is that Bird in the Sky?

It weighs over 9,000 pounds and is roughly the size of a school bus :shock:


https://corpblog.viasat.com/viasat-2-ge ... or-launch/

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by Hoser Rob » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:53 am

leafymo1r92 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:19 pm
it's kinda annoying getting the installation done then greeted with 100+ updates available
i would never expect that from buying a game from xbox live for example but why is this a thing with linux?
That game you bought from xbox live was developed by a staff of 50-100 or more.

Unlike that game, Linux distros and software are developed by volunteers almost all the time. They don''t have enough time to do things that are actually important, like fix bugs, let alone this.

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Re: why are distros never updated?

Post by karlchen » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:39 am

Hello, leafymo1r92.
leafymo1r92 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:19 pm
it's kinda annoying getting the installation done then greeted with 100+ updates available
i would never expect that from buying a game from xbox live for example but why is this a thing with linux?
I am aware that this thread is a few months old and that a heated discussion has evolved. I admit I fail to see what may be so emotional about it.

First thing:
You cannot compare apples (operating system distributions) with oranges (single applications like games). Any further comment on this comparison is in vain.

Second thing:
The installation media of Linux Mint are upgraded every few months, roughly every 6 months. For each new Mint LTS release this is done 4 times: example Mint 18, then Mint 18.1, next Mint 18.2, finallly and for the last time Mint 18.3.
So the statement made implicitly in your title is simply incorrect. Distros or rather their installation media are updated in regular intervals.

The interval in which installation media for a given distribution like e.g. Linux Mint are upgraded also depend on the available man-power, who can compile and test the installation media before publishing them.
Even distributions, who may have a lot more developers than the Mint team, publish new installation media only in intervals of 4 or 6 months. E.g. Ubuntu.
The reason is very trivial: the human resources, available to any developer team, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, Debian, Fedora, etc pp, are limited.
Like it or not. Accept it as a fact of life. Resources are limited. Tasks have to be prioritized.
Installation media can only be updated every few months.

As a result, after having completed a Linux Mint installation from the most recently available installation medium, a smaller or larger number of updated software packages are already waiting for your new system in the software repositories.
Consider this initial "mega"-update part of the fresh installation process and be done with it.

Best regards,
Karl
--
P..S:
As leafymo1r92 was last seen only 4 days after starting this thread end of November, I consider it safe to close this thread here and now.
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