Mobile Phone OS

[Grarea]

Could I please ask some basic mobile phone questions?
I am pretty new into thinking about mucking about with tech stuff.
Wasn't aware I could.
My knowledge is pretty poor.
Could I see if what I have picked up is correct?

I have always been frustrated with bloatware and all the other well known issues with phones.

My old one is wearing out.
I wanted a phone that I could change the battery. I wanted something I could root (which I believe means I am the root user and can do what I like to it)
That means I actually OWN my own phone, right? Like Linux I can choose what is on it.
No bloatware means the phone will have more longevity as its storage won't be as full.
No bloatware likely means better battery life as there is less running in the background.
I assume that the RAM will be more effective as well.

I picked up a Nexus 5. (I understand the battery life is a bit poor, but sounded like a good starting point. I believe this to be a reasonable buy)

I was originally thinking that I would put a Linux OS on it.
But, from what I read and have been told, there isn't a Linux ready for that purpose just yet.
(Especially for a noob. I am a noob, but can learn. But for now I am hoping to follow some instructions.)
Is this a correct understanding?

My next thought is a basic Android looks to be a better bet.
I believe it is called Vanilla or Basic (or something else, that I can't recall).
Am I right in thinking that this is the basic open source OS.
The phone manufacturers take that and make you the user having put a load of apps on that they make money on and prevent you from deleting them.
So, if you get the basic Android, it hasn't been tinkered with.

I think that is all of my knowledge.
Is it correct so far?

[Hoser Rob]

... I was originally thinking that I would put a Linux OS on it.
But, from what I read and have been told, there isn't a Linux ready for that purpose just yet.
(Especially for a noob. I am a noob, but can learn. But for now I am hoping to follow some instructions.)
Is this a correct understanding?..
Is it correct so far?

Yes, I'm afraid it is. There was a Ubuntu Phone project but it was a disaster. Some others took it over but if Ubuntu couldn't make it work I wouldn't be optimistic.

Even if it worked, you wouldn't be able to access web apps. They're decidedly closed source and nonfree. E.g. WhatsApp charges over 1M$ just to be able to read their SDK. So what you'd end up with is a $400 smartphone that works like a $50 feature phone.

I think you'd be better off with stock or 'vanilla' android.

[Moem]

A term that you should research is 'Lineage OS'. It's a basic Android that can be run very cleanly.

[Grarea]

Yes, I'm afraid it is. There was a Ubuntu Phone project but it was a disaster. Some others took it over but if Ubuntu couldn't make it work I wouldn't be optimistic.

Even if it worked, you wouldn't be able to access web apps. They're decidedly closed source and nonfree. E.g. WhatsApp charges over 1M$ just to be able to read their SDK. So what you'd end up with is a $400 smartphone that works like a $50 feature phone.

I think you'd be better off with stock or 'vanilla' android.

Great thanks.
Purism looks like it is almost ready. I'll look forward to one of them when they more in my price bracket

A term that you should research is 'Lineage OS'. It's a basic Android that can be run very cleanly.

Thank you as well. I will do. I am getting excited now
So are these all the same thing?
As in the same version of Android?

'stock', 'basic', 'vanilla', 'Lineage OS' , 'pure Android'
Or are some of them the same?
Or are they different versions or am i misunderstanding what they are?

Thanks for the input as well, sounds like I am on the right lines.

[guythp]

I've had a quick look and the nexus 5 is supported by lineage so i'd suggest doing a quick websearch as that should lead to step-by-step instructions for rooting your phone and flashing lineage on it. I've not done so for a while (the last time was when it was know as cyanogenmod) but it was pretty straight forward and it gives you a phone with stock android and no bloat.

From my limited understanding (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong as there are far, far more knowledgeable folk here), but stock, basic and vanilla should mean the same. Though as I said have a quick on the web and videos sites too, as there's more than likely a guide/explanation.

[Portreve]

Could I please ask some basic mobile phone questions?

Hey Grarea!

It's been a few days since you started this, so I'm not sure what you have learned so far. I'll try and backfill some general knowledge.

"Rooting" one's phone is kind of a misnomer because it's often used in a sense other than simply "having root (account access)" on your phone. In fact, much of what one does has little to nothing to do with having root.

With the Nexus 5 (and indeed pretty much any other Google-branded phone) you enable Developer Options on your phone, use that to enable OEM unlocking, and then with the phone plugged in, you can use the from-the-repos-installable adb and fastboot command line programs to manipulate your phone.

The essence is you can send a command like sudo fastboot reboot bootloader and sudo fastboot oem unlock, among a host of other things.

I would suggest, if you're going to use a community ROM such as LineageOS or NitrogenOS to use, at the point it says to use the openGAPPS installer, the "Aroma" version. This lets you nicely, easily, and graphically pick, on your phone's screen, exactly which apps and services you want to install.

Some additional community project software either benefits from or requires root access on your phone, and so there's additional components you can install in the setup process which give you root, and allow that access to persist.

Another benefit of using these sort of community ROMs is to have access to newer versions of Android (upon which they're all based) than what would otherwise be available to you.

Android 9, which is the current release, is significantly nicer than Android 5, 6, or 7, which likely is all that would otherwise be available to you on that phone.

Having said all of that, the degree of actual, genuine bloat you get depends upon which model of phone you buy.

Recently, my trusty Nexus 6 died, and I bought a Moto G7, which to my way of looking at it comes with no bloat at all.

Bear in mind that many folk (some of whom are in this forum) use community ROMs not simply to avoid bloat, but to micromanage every single bit of software and services on their phones, and this may or may not be beyond what you are actually interested in achieving.

Best of luck to you in your new endeavor!

[michael louwe]

Could I please ask some basic mobile phone questions?
I am pretty new into thinking about mucking about with tech stuff. Wasn't aware I could. My knowledge is pretty poor. Could I see if what I have picked up is correct?

I have always been frustrated with bloatware and all the other well known issues with phones.

.
AFAIK: .......

For this, we need to know the beginning or history of the "free-of-charge" Mobile OSes for smartphones(= can also surf the web or Internet) with touchscreens in the mid-2000s. In comparison, Desktop OSes can only surf the web = cannot make normal cellular voice calls/SMS and normally do not use touchscreens.

Google-Android was derived from the Linux kernel. Apple-iOS was derived from Unix/MacOSX. Both Google and Apple seeked to maximize profits by purposely crippling their Mobile OSes(= locked bootloader and jailed/unrooted), imposing a walled-off App Store/Play Store as default, must be registered with a Google ID/account or Apple ID, etc. In this respect, Mobile OSes are very different from the free and open nature of legacy Desktop OSes(= were only adopted by the masses in the 1980s), eg we can install apps in Desktop Windows, MacOS and Linux directly from the web as default, we can install another bootloader/OS on our computers, can use a Local account, ie just a username and password(= no need an email-connected account or ID), etc.

There are also Android forks like Lineage OS, Amazon Fire OS, Oxygen OS, etc, that are forked from the Google-sponsored Android Open Source Project or AOSP. There are other Linux-based Mobile OS like Ubuntu Touch, Samsung Tizen OS, Jolla Sailfish OS, the dead Mozilla Firefox OS, etc. We had the dying Win 10 Mobile OS.

Google's business model for free Android is mostly based on ad revenue = she could not provide costly full tech support for Android devices, like security updates and OS upgrades automatically OTA (over-the-air). Hence, such tech support are provided by Google's Android OEM partners but only for mid to high-end Android devices only, eg the OEM may provide a maximum of 2 OS upgrades(from Android 7.0 to Android 8.0 and 9.0) for their high-end devices = Planned Obsolescence. To recoup such tech support costs, the OEMs often put bloatware/adware on their new Android devices.
....... OTOH, Google Inc puts her own Google bloatware/adware on all Android devices, eg Google Chrome, Gmail, Youtube, Google Maps, Google Drive, Google Docs, etc.

In comparison, Apple's business model for "free" iOS is mostly based on premium, high-end or luxury branded iProducts/iDevices that carry a wide or high profit margin = she could provide costly full tech support OTA and puts only her own Apple bloatware/adware, eg iTunes, Apple Cloud, etc.
....... OTOH, Apple has built Planned Obsolescence into the free iOS upgrades by blocking 5 to 6 years old iDevices from being upgraded, eg iPhone 5(came with iOS 7) cannot be upgraded to iOS 12.

If you buy Google-Android devices like Nexus and Pixel, they are more expensive than similar-specced OEM-Android devices and they come with Stock Android(= without any bloatware/adware from the OEMs) since you are not buying from the OEMs. You also get many OS upgrades directly from Google since you have paid more money to buy Google-Android devices.

If you are a tech-geek, you can buy the 'cheaper' mid to high-end OEM-Android devices, and may be able to unlock the bootloader, root it and flash/install it with a Custom ROM like Lineage OS that has no bloatware/adware from the OEM/Google Inc or with the latest Stock Android version like Android 9.0(= sourced by super-techgeeks from AOSP).
....... OTOH, it seems some of the OEMs have recently disallowed their bootloaders from being unlocked, eg Huawei.

P S - US Mobile telcos even began their history by locking all their endorsed "cheap" Android/iOS/WindowsPhone smartphones to the telco carrier with 2-year hire-for-purchase contracts.

[Grarea]

Could I please ask some basic mobile phone questions?

Hey Grarea!

It's been a few days since you started this, so I'm not sure what you have learned so far. I'll try and backfill some general knowledge.

"Rooting" one's phone is kind of a misnomer because it's often used in a sense other than simply "having root (account access)" on your phone. In fact, much of what one does has little to nothing to do with having root.

With the Nexus 5 (and indeed pretty much any other Google-branded phone) you enable Developer Options on your phone, use that to enable OEM unlocking, and then with the phone plugged in, you can use the from-the-repos-installable adb and fastboot command line programs to manipulate your phone.

The essence is you can send a command like sudo fastboot reboot bootloader and sudo fastboot oem unlock, among a host of other things.

I would suggest, if you're going to use a community ROM such as LineageOS or NitrogenOS to use, at the point it says to use the openGAPPS installer, the "Aroma" version. This lets you nicely, easily, and graphically pick, on your phone's screen, exactly which apps and services you want to install.

Some additional community project software either benefits from or requires root access on your phone, and so there's additional components you can install in the setup process which give you root, and allow that access to persist.

Another benefit of using these sort of community ROMs is to have access to newer versions of Android (upon which they're all based) than what would otherwise be available to you.

Android 9, which is the current release, is significantly nicer than Android 5, 6, or 7, which likely is all that would otherwise be available to you on that phone.

Having said all of that, the degree of actual, genuine bloat you get depends upon which model of phone you buy.

Recently, my trusty Nexus 6 died, and I bought a Moto G7, which to my way of looking at it comes with no bloat at all.

Bear in mind that many folk (some of whom are in this forum) use community ROMs not simply to avoid bloat, but to micromanage every single bit of software and services on their phones, and this may or may not be beyond what you are actually interested in achieving.

Best of luck to you in your new endeavor!

Hiya,
that is excellent info, I really appreciate that.
I was kind of getting there with the knowledge but have certainly gained some more from your post.
Nice to have some confirmed as well.

Interesting to hear about the G7.

I quite like the idea of being able to fiddle with software that gets put on the phone.
It is something I may or may not be interested in doing in the future.

I quite liked the ability to in case it took my fancy.
My old phone was struggling and so needed to get another one.
So I thought I would get the nexus 5 as they are cheap (er than my current one will sell for) and open up some opportunities as it appears easy (ish) to get roms for it.
I also saw that the previous attempt on mobile Linux was on N5, so it sort of covered a couple of birds.

I looked into LineageOS and they look very well organised. Their instructions looked good etc etc
Unfortunately they no longer support the N5.

Another one that seemed possibly interesting was plasmamobile.

Anyway, I digress, I was just getting to understand the whole thing and discovered that Ubuntu touch is up and running.
UBports brought out a running os not very long ago.
They specifically support the N5. How could I resist?
I have it on my phone now. (as of yesterday)
They have an installer which means that you don't have to unlock your bootloader yourself.
The installer does it for you.

I am pretty impressed.
Obviously it is a bit of a new thing and there are features you might want and I will need to rethink what apps are available in Open Source world.
But it is fun trying it out for sure.

If, for any reason, I come away from that, this info will be very useful.
In fact, I have been chatting to a few people already.
I appreciate all the input.

Also, I have found it pretty enlightening.

[Grarea]

AFAIK: .......

For this, we need to know the beginning or history of the "free-of-charge" Mobile OSes for smartphones(= can also surf the web or Internet) with touchscreens in the mid-2000s. In comparison, Desktop OSes can only surf the web = cannot make normal cellular voice calls/SMS and normally do not use touchscreens.

Google-Android was derived from the Linux kernel. Apple-iOS was derived from Unix/MacOSX. Both Google and Apple seeked to maximize profits by purposely crippling their Mobile OSes(= locked bootloader and jailed/unrooted), imposing a walled-off App Store/Play Store as default, must be registered with a Google ID/account or Apple ID, etc. In this respect, Mobile OSes are very different from the free and open nature of legacy Desktop OSes(= were only adopted by the masses in the 1980s), eg we can install apps in Desktop Windows, MacOS and Linux directly from the web as default, we can install another bootloader/OS on our computers, can use a Local account, ie just a username and password(= no need an email-connected account or ID), etc.

There are also Android forks like Lineage OS, Amazon Fire OS, Oxygen OS, etc, that are forked from the Google-sponsored Android Open Source Project or AOSP. There are other Linux-based Mobile OS like Ubuntu Touch, Samsung Tizen OS, Jolla Sailfish OS, the dead Mozilla Firefox OS, etc. We had the dying Win 10 Mobile OS.

Google's business model for free Android is mostly based on ad revenue = she could not provide costly full tech support for Android devices, like security updates and OS upgrades automatically OTA (over-the-air). Hence, such tech support are provided by Google's Android OEM partners but only for mid to high-end Android devices only, eg the OEM may provide a maximum of 2 OS upgrades(from Android 7.0 to Android 8.0 and 9.0) for their high-end devices = Planned Obsolescence. To recoup such tech support costs, the OEMs often put bloatware/adware on their new Android devices.
....... OTOH, Google Inc puts her own Google bloatware/adware on all Android devices, eg Google Chrome, Gmail, Youtube, Google Maps, Google Drive, Google Docs, etc.

In comparison, Apple's business model for "free" iOS is mostly based on premium, high-end or luxury branded iProducts/iDevices that carry a wide or high profit margin = she could provide costly full tech support OTA and puts only her own Apple bloatware/adware, eg iTunes, Apple Cloud, etc.
....... OTOH, Apple has built Planned Obsolescence into the free iOS upgrades by blocking 5 to 6 years old iDevices from being upgraded, eg iPhone 5(came with iOS 7) cannot be upgraded to iOS 12.

If you buy Google-Android devices like Nexus and Pixel, they are more expensive than similar-specced OEM-Android devices and they come with Stock Android(= without any bloatware/adware from the OEMs) since you are not buying from the OEMs. You also get many OS upgrades directly from Google since you have paid more money to buy Google-Android devices.

If you are a tech-geek, you can buy the 'cheaper' mid to high-end OEM-Android devices, and may be able to unlock the bootloader, root it and flash/install it with a Custom ROM like Lineage OS that has no bloatware/adware from the OEM/Google Inc or with the latest Stock Android version like Android 9.0(= sourced by super-techgeeks from AOSP).
....... OTOH, it seems some of the OEMs have recently disallowed their bootloaders from being unlocked, eg Huawei.

P S - US Mobile telcos even began their history by locking all their endorsed "cheap" Android/iOS/WindowsPhone smartphones to the telco carrier with 2-year hire-for-purchase contracts.

Fantastic.
Thank you very much for taking the time to write that out.
Interesting stuff.
I shall also forward that on to someone who I was bumbling around explaining it to earlier.

[Portreve]

I suppose it really all depends upon your budget and what you define as being "expensive".

I'm not a rich man. I'm not even particularly what I'd call "well off" but I don't think of $300 - $600 phones as being particularly "expensive". I mean, I totally get that there are less expensive phones on the market, but in my experience it's really "buyer beware" because often such phones are hopelessly crippled, either in a restrictions sort of way by the manufacturer and/or carrier, or simply based on having low-end specs.

I don't really share the view with some others who re-ROM their phone so that they can run Android, but try and strip out every last possible Google bit so there's just the bare minimum code from Google necessary to have an operable phone. The reason for that is if I really wanted to get Google's tentacles off of my phone to that extent, I wouldn't buy an Android-running device in the first place. However, that's just me, and I'm certain folks of that persuasion will not agree with my all-or-nothing minimalist idealist perspective.

As mentioned elsewhere, Purism produces a line of devices, soon to include a smart phone, which run actual legitimate GNU+Linux. The company's business case is total privacy and unrestricted freedom to use your device as you see fit. As things presently stand, it's likely too early for the average regular person to switch to their platform (as regards their phone; the rest of their product line-up would be just fine) because their own self-produced apps, and other programs coming from regular libre distribution sources are not fully "there" yet. I have no doubt they will be, but right now I don't think normal people would be able to accomplish everything they might wish to. That doesn't even get into not having any capacity to run popular third-party software, such as Signal, WhatsApp, some kind of cloud-based office suite, etc.

These present stumbling blocks prevent me from even considering the Librem 5. I hope that some day in the not too terribly distant future, it will mature to the point that these things simply are no longer issues.

[michael louwe]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write that out.
Interesting stuff.

.
AFAIK: .......

In short, the profit-gouging of ordinary consumers/non-techgeeks by super-greedy US tech-giants is at full display with Apple-iOS, Google-Android and Mobile telcos/carriers which has mostly been condoned by the selfish US government. The only hope for such consumers is their national governments, like the EU.
....... Luckily we have good techgeeks who could outsmart Apple's and Google's smartphones(eg jailbreak iPhones or develop their own Android forks like Lineage OS 15, which is based on Android 8.0).
.
.
P S - Fyi, patent royalty payments to mostly US tech companies comprise about 30% of the price of an Android phone sold in USA and her Allied countries, eg Qualcomm charges about 13% of the phone price for her 3G/4G modem patents. If an Android phone is priced at US$400 in USA, US$120 goes to patent royalty payments. This may not apply outside of USA, eg France and China do not recognize US patents.
....... The US Patent system was revamped in the 2000s to allow permissive profit-gouging and patent-trolling by US tech companies, eg the US Patent Office permitted Apple's design patent for "rounded corners" in smartphones; even M$, a non-Mobile-OS US tech company, could earn about US$2 billion a year from Android OEMs for her patents, etc.

About 1.3 billion smartphones are sold each year worldwide. If 300 million are sold in the US, imagine the amount of patent royalty payments per year charged by US tech companies. ...
https://www.androidauthority.com/percen ... es-388270/ - .What percent of a smartphone’s price comes from patent royalties? - 2014
https://www.wilmerhale.com/en/insights/ ... alty-stack
.
.
P P S - By imposing the walled-off App Store/Play Store as default, Apple and Google were able to profit-gouge 30% from app developers for every app sale or subscription.
....... Imagine if M$ was able to do the same with Windows Store/M$ Store, ie a 30% cut from every sale or subscription of Windows game, business app, utility app, etc, eg 3D AutoCAD LT costs US$400 per license and Civil 3D costs US$2205. ... https://www.autodesk.com/buy-online ; Adobe Creative Cloud costs US$52.99 per month ... https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud/plans.html

[Grarea]

Again, interesting stuff.
What is more amazing is that guys have worked out how to step outside of this irritating system.

You can see why they do it, but they just seem to push too far don't they?

Luckily, I have no real reason to even need android I don't think.
I am not addicted to facebook or any other social media.
Quite nice to degoogle and deandroid etcc etc

I haven't had the Ubuntu touch on all that long, but i haven't found a need for anything else yet.
You can always work around things, you know?

Oh, I used to use BBC iplayer a lot, so I will just need to rethink that one.

Not like there aren't other option for things to listen to out there.

My other little issue is that the N5 is reknowned for poor battery life.
Considering strapping another battery to the back for fun.
UT are pushing on other devices as we speak, but for a noob like me, N5 is the most supported so I will stick with that for now.

[michael louwe]

What is more amazing is that guys have worked out how to step outside of this irritating system.

Unfortunately, only tech guys could do that, ie install Ubuntu Touch or Lineage OS on their Android smartphones = only about 5% of smartphone users = the other 95% are sitting ducks or like sheep led to slaughter by Apple and Google, eg .......
https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/08/0 ... d-300-off/ - The Pixel 3 and 3XL are $300 off at Google and Amazon (and Best Buy) = now at $500 and $600 - Aug 5, 2019.
= profit margin was likely more than 30% at first launch.

If the US government does not take action on behalf of the 95% ordinary/average users, then they need another Japanese-like innovation that had brought down the prices of cars and electrical appliances in the US and rest of the world during the 1970s and 1980s, eg China-Huawei's HongMeng OS or SKorea-Samsung's Tizen OS dethroning Google's Android and M$'s Windows.

[Grarea]

On the plus side, I really am not a tech guy and they have made it so that I can manage it.
Honestly, the UT has its own installer and you don't need to root your phone, it does it for you.

I guess I am the next level of person to move onto it.
someone who has the inclination and has half a brain that can actual follow instructions and learn a few bits to get what they want.

I just didn't even know there were alternatives until 6 months ago.
Boy I am telling people now
(But, yes, only those with half a brain and able to learn)
Someone I know is looking at the Lineage route, which I am interested to follow.

Hopefully it gets more well known, which means better supported and then easier for everyone to do.