[SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

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Mint Lounger
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Aha, I see...thanks! Very difficult tracking down answers for Linux sometimes, when you want to pick apart an aspect. Have a great night or day (wherever you are).
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Flemur »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:17 pm
Yes, I'm aware it's a KDE application, and that it might also download some other KDE dependencies as a result...but some of the files bundled with kmag are totally irrelevant to that app's use.
Are you sure those weren't updates to vlc? And applications and packages which start with k are often part of KDE (desktop), and might need almost another whole GUI system installed, unless you're already using KDE.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Flemur wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:37 pm
Are you sure those weren't updates to vlc? And applications
No, I do not have VLC installed. Nor kwallet, which dependencies were also included. Unless there's a glitch in Synaptics, the installation package or something else, I find it beyond the pale for one installation to include updates to another application. 'Cause that's not how package managers work.
and packages which start with k are often part of KDE (desktop), and might need almost another whole GUI system installed, unless you're already using KDE.
They might, but considering this to be a simple utility caused me to wonder what's going on. Especially when some dependencies appear to be totally unrelated to the application being installed. I have installed an occasional KDE app before, so am acquainted with the process. Hopefully, one of the three authors of kmag will eventually get back to me, although one of their emails seems to be defunct, as it bounced back a few hours later.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Well this is curious, as kmag's list of dependencies on this page does /not/ include the files in question:

https://ubuntu.pkgs.org/18.04/ubuntu-un ... 4.deb.html

BTW, I don't consider my question "solved" yet, as the kmag mystery is still afoot. I did not edit my OP as solved, admin must've done in. So I just went and got rid of it.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by smurphos »

Dependencies are a tree, i.e kmag has some dependencies, those packages in turn have their dependencies, etc etc. As this is a KDE app the chain includes a whole bunch of packages that are KDE specific that wouldn't be found in a XFCE, MATE or Cinnamon install.

What I get from a simulated install on Cinnamon in 19.3. Yep some vlc related packages are in there.

Code: Select all

steve@steve-Inspiron-5580:~$ apt install -s kmag
[sudo] password for steve:               
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  kinit kio libaribb24-0 libbasicusageenvironment1 libcddb2 libdbusmenu-qt5-2 libdvbpsi10 libebml4v5 libfam0
  libgroupsock8 libkf5archive5 libkf5attica5 libkf5auth-data libkf5auth5 libkf5codecs-data libkf5codecs5
  libkf5completion-data libkf5completion5 libkf5config-data libkf5configcore5 libkf5configgui5
  libkf5configwidgets-data libkf5configwidgets5 libkf5coreaddons-data libkf5coreaddons5 libkf5crash5
  libkf5dbusaddons-data libkf5dbusaddons5 libkf5doctools5 libkf5globalaccel-data libkf5globalaccel5 libkf5guiaddons5
  libkf5i18n-data libkf5i18n5 libkf5iconthemes-data libkf5iconthemes5 libkf5itemviews-data libkf5itemviews5
  libkf5jobwidgets-data libkf5jobwidgets5 libkf5kiocore5 libkf5kiontlm5 libkf5kiowidgets5 libkf5notifications-data
  libkf5notifications5 libkf5service-bin libkf5service-data libkf5service5 libkf5solid5 libkf5solid5-data
  libkf5sonnet5-data libkf5sonnetcore5 libkf5sonnetui5 libkf5textwidgets-data libkf5textwidgets5 libkf5wallet-bin
  libkf5wallet-data libkf5wallet5 libkf5widgetsaddons-data libkf5widgetsaddons5 libkf5windowsystem-data
  libkf5windowsystem5 libkf5xmlgui-bin libkf5xmlgui-data libkf5xmlgui5 libkwalletbackend5-5 liblivemedia62
  libmatroska6v5 libmicrodns0 libnfs11 libopenmpt-modplug1 libphonon4qt5-4 libplacebo4 libpolkit-qt5-1-1
  libprotobuf-lite10 libqt5script5 libqt5texttospeech5 libresid-builder0c2a libsdl-image1.2 libsidplay2 libupnp6
  libusageenvironment3 libvlc5 libvlccore9 phonon4qt5 phonon4qt5-backend-vlc vlc-data vlc-plugin-base
  vlc-plugin-video-output
This command will print the whole dependency tree for kmag. It's huge.

Code: Select all

apt depends --recurse --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces kmag
This command will give a clue as to how vlc related packages end up being a dependency in the chain.

Code: Select all

apt depends --recurse --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces kmag | grep vlc
Then working through based on that clue we get

kmag depends on kio which depends on libkf5notifications5 which depends on phonon4qt5 which prefers phonon4qt5-backend-vlc as its backend which in turn depends on several other vlc related packages.

Code: Select all

steve@steve-Inspiron-5580:~$ apt depends --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces kmag
kmag
  Depends: kio
  Depends: libc6
  Depends: libkf5configcore5
  Depends: libkf5configgui5
  Depends: libkf5configwidgets5
  Depends: libkf5coreaddons5
  Depends: libkf5i18n5
  Depends: libkf5kiocore5
  Depends: libkf5widgetsaddons5
  Depends: libkf5xmlgui-bin
  Depends: libkf5xmlgui5
  Depends: libqt5core5a
  Depends: libqt5gui5
  Depends: libqt5printsupport5
  Depends: libqt5widgets5
  Depends: libstdc++6
steve@steve-Inspiron-5580:~$ apt depends --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces kio
kio
  Depends: kinit
  Depends: libacl1
  Depends: libc6
  Depends: libgcc1
  Depends: libgssapi-krb5-2
  Depends: libkf5archive5
  Depends: libkf5auth5
  Depends: libkf5codecs5
  Depends: libkf5completion5
  Depends: libkf5configcore5
  Depends: libkf5configwidgets5
  Depends: libkf5coreaddons5
  Depends: libkf5dbusaddons5
  Depends: libkf5doctools5
  Depends: libkf5i18n5
  Depends: libkf5itemviews5
  Depends: libkf5kiocore5
  Depends: libkf5kiontlm5
  Depends: libkf5kiowidgets5
  Depends: libkf5notifications5
  Depends: libkf5service-bin
  Depends: libkf5service5
  Depends: libkf5solid5
  Depends: libkf5textwidgets5
  Depends: libkf5wallet-bin
  Depends: libkf5wallet5
  Depends: libkf5widgetsaddons5
  Depends: libkf5windowsystem5
  Depends: libqt5core5a
  Depends: libqt5dbus5
  Depends: libqt5gui5
  Depends: libqt5network5
  Depends: libqt5script5
  Depends: libqt5widgets5
  Depends: libqt5x11extras5
  Depends: libqt5xml5
  Depends: libstdc++6
  Depends: libxml2
  Depends: libxslt1.1
steve@steve-Inspiron-5580:~$ apt depends --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces libkf5notifications5
libkf5notifications5
  Depends: libkf5notifications-data
  Depends: libc6
  Depends: libdbusmenu-qt5-2
  Depends: libkf5codecs5
  Depends: libkf5configcore5
  Depends: libkf5coreaddons5
  Depends: libkf5windowsystem5
  Depends: libphonon4qt5-4
  Depends: libqt5core5a
  Depends: libqt5dbus5
  Depends: libqt5gui5
  Depends: libqt5texttospeech5
  Depends: libqt5widgets5
  Depends: libqt5x11extras5
  Depends: libstdc++6
  Depends: phonon4qt5
steve@steve-Inspiron-5580:~$ apt depends --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces phonon4qt5
phonon4qt5
  Depends: libphonon4qt5-4
 |Depends: debconf
  Depends: <debconf-2.0>
    cdebconf
    debconf
 |Depends: phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
  Depends: <phonon4qt5-backend>
    phonon4qt5-backend-gstreamer
    phonon4qt5-backend-null
    phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
steve@steve-Inspiron-5580:~$ apt depends --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
  Depends: vlc-plugin-base
  Depends: vlc-plugin-video-output
  Depends: libc6
  Depends: libphonon4qt5-4
  Depends: libqt5core5a
  Depends: libqt5gui5
  Depends: libqt5widgets5
  Depends: libstdc++6
  Depends: libvlc5
  Depends: libvlccore9
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Yes, of course. I understand that installing any KDE app will be bundled with some KDE dependencies...and that it might vary from one desktop environment to another. I am not confused about that. But what's up with seemingly unrelated files within that bundle, is what I'm curious about. Like: are they really necessary, or are they just thrown in for some other reason? So let's see if the kmag authors get back to me, and what they have to say about it. I tried looking up each of these unexpected dependencies, but could not find any explanation as to why they've been bundled with kmag. Thanks just the same for your elucidation.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by smurphos »

smurphos wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:45 am
kmag depends on kio which depends on libkf5notifications5 which depends on phonon4qt5 which prefers phonon4qt5-backend-vlc as its backend which in turn depends on several other vlc related packages.
Given that the issue is that phonon4qt5 prefers phonon4qt5-backend-vlc, but can use different backends the solution to avoid vlc relating packages would be to install a different backend along with kmag

e.g.

Code: Select all

apt install kmag phonon4qt5-backend-gstreamer
Simulated output - no vlc this time.

Code: Select all

steve@steve-Inspiron-5580:~$ apt install -s kmag phonon4qt5-backend-gstreamer
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following additional packages will be installed:
  kinit kio libdbusmenu-qt5-2 libfam0 libkf5archive5 libkf5attica5 libkf5auth-data libkf5auth5 libkf5codecs-data
  libkf5codecs5 libkf5completion-data libkf5completion5 libkf5config-data libkf5configcore5 libkf5configgui5
  libkf5configwidgets-data libkf5configwidgets5 libkf5coreaddons-data libkf5coreaddons5 libkf5crash5
  libkf5dbusaddons-data libkf5dbusaddons5 libkf5doctools5 libkf5globalaccel-data libkf5globalaccel5 libkf5guiaddons5
  libkf5i18n-data libkf5i18n5 libkf5iconthemes-data libkf5iconthemes5 libkf5itemviews-data libkf5itemviews5
  libkf5jobwidgets-data libkf5jobwidgets5 libkf5kiocore5 libkf5kiontlm5 libkf5kiowidgets5 libkf5notifications-data
  libkf5notifications5 libkf5service-bin libkf5service-data libkf5service5 libkf5solid5 libkf5solid5-data
  libkf5sonnet5-data libkf5sonnetcore5 libkf5sonnetui5 libkf5textwidgets-data libkf5textwidgets5 libkf5wallet-bin
  libkf5wallet-data libkf5wallet5 libkf5widgetsaddons-data libkf5widgetsaddons5 libkf5windowsystem-data
  libkf5windowsystem5 libkf5xmlgui-bin libkf5xmlgui-data libkf5xmlgui5 libkwalletbackend5-5 libphonon4qt5-4
  libpolkit-qt5-1-1 libqt5script5 libqt5texttospeech5 phonon-backend-gstreamer-common phonon4qt5
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Wow, thanks! You certainly know your way around Linux. I will go through your tutorial with a fine-toothed comb, that I may get better at this, myself. I consider my query solved.
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Re: [SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Flemur »

Sometimes I'll not install a program if it has 'too many' dependencies - there are probably other magnifier programs and you probably already have a (fairly primitive) gizmo called xmag (in package x11-apps):
xmag.gif
xmag.gif (10.22 KiB) Viewed 121 times
Edit: there's package xzoom which sounds nicer than xmag and has zero dependencies on my light system (most 'x' programs only depend on the same low-level software that every GUI programs needs).
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Re: [SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Flexan »

They are required dependencies.

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Re: [SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Flemur wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:52 am
there's package xzoom which sounds nicer than xmag and has zero dependencies on my light system (most 'x' programs only depend on the same low-level software that every GUI programs needs).
If you've read my previous posts in this thread, you'll see I've tried that, and the other magnifiers available in Synaptics. They don't work well at all, for my needs. Among the three, kmag works best. However, in this thread I've already followed another's suggestion to try Compiz, and I was able to get the screen magnifier that is best. Thanks for your reply, though. Xzoom may "sound" nicer (whatever that means), but it isn't, in fact it doesn't even work at all. I have a hunch you never even tried it out.
Last edited by Mint Lounger on Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Flexan wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:00 pm
They are required dependencies.
Already discussed in this thread. I was questioning /why/ they were required...not that I don't understand the concept of "required dependencies." Thanks for your comment, though.
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Re: Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

smurphos wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:45 am
Dependencies are a tree, i.e kmag has some dependencies, those packages in turn have their dependencies, etc etc. As this is a KDE app the chain includes a whole bunch of packages that are KDE specific that wouldn't be found in a XFCE, MATE or Cinnamon install.
If there were a decent magnifier from XCFE, I'd certainly prefer that...I've tried the two available, and they're just plain lousy. KDE (and other desktop) apps are a handy last resort IMO. I no longer need kmag, since Compiz's magnifier is much better. However, for learning purposes, allow me to proceed:

Okay, I followed all those commands, and learned about the dependency tree. I had to first learn how to download source code, which I finally did. As it turns out, reading the source code for kmag.cpp did not show me any "vlc" (or "phonon" or "wallet") listed, so advice to read the source code wasn't any help. But your commands did, and many VLC aspects are included, like so:

Code: Select all

zeke@X230:~$ apt depends --recurse --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces kmag | grep vlc
 |Depends: phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
    phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
phonon4qt5-backend-vlc
  Depends: vlc-plugin-base
  Depends: vlc-plugin-video-output
  Depends: libvlc5
  Depends: libvlccore9
vlc-plugin-base
  Depends: vlc-data
  Depends: libvlccore9
  Depends: <vlc-plugin-abi-3-0-0f>
    libvlccore9
vlc-plugin-video-output
  Depends: libvlccore9
  Depends: <vlc-plugin-abi-3-0-0f>
    libvlccore9
  Enhances: vlc
libvlc5
  Depends: libvlccore9
libvlccore9
vlc-data
vlc
  Depends: vlc-bin
  Depends: vlc-plugin-base
  Depends: vlc-plugin-qt
  Depends: vlc-plugin-video-output
vlc-bin
  Depends: libvlc-bin
  Depends: libvlc5
vlc-plugin-qt
  Depends: libvlccore9
  Depends: <vlc-plugin-abi-3-0-0f>
    libvlccore9
libvlc-bin
  Depends: libvlc5
<vlc-plugin-abi-3-0-0f>
zeke@X230:~$ 
I then uninstalled kmag with "complete removal," but the VLC/kwallet/phonon dependencies remain installed. So kmag dumps a bunch of dependency files when installing, but does not remove them when uninstalling! I guess I have to click on each one in Synaptics to have them removed. I don't know, though, if that will corrupt other applications...though I have no other KDE program installed. I guess I have to go through the list of dependencies installed with kmag, and remove each one myself. :(

Okay, I'm guessing the "remove orphaned packages" utility will take care of that...I just discovered it in the Mint menu.

Regardless, after uninstalling kmag, then reinstalling with your non-vlc command:

Code: Select all

apt install kmag phonon4qt5-backend-gstreamer
I still get the same, long list of vlc dependencies, using the "apt depends" command:

Code: Select all

apt depends --recurse --no-recommends --no-suggests --no-conflicts --no-breaks --no-replaces kmag | grep vlc
These outside dependencies are like Wlindoze' dll files I guess (a concept, I presume, stolen as usual from Unix)...only they keep their original names based on when they were first created by another application...rather than what they actually do. Why reinvent the wheel, when one can hook into some dependency from another program that does the same subroutine. But then /that/ dependency may need a source dependency, and the source dependency may need it's /own/ source dependency...and so on! Oh how I long for the simpler, good ol' days of DOS .ovl (overlay) files (also probably stolen from Unix)!

Anyway, I'm obviously too clueless, still, to grasp installation dependencies in all their entire glory...but I'm keeping your instructions saved to a text file, for further exploration. Thanks for your excellent help, no need to elaborate further on your part, unless it's your pleasure.
Last edited by Moem on Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Swapped the [c] tags out for [code] tags; the code tags retain some formatting that makes your output easier to read.
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Re: [SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Flemur »

Mint Lounger wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:12 pm
xzoom may "sound" nicer (whatever that means), but it isn't, in fact it doesn't even work at all.
xzoom.jpg
xzoom.jpg (20.31 KiB) Viewed 49 times
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?

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Re: [SOLVED] Extraneous Files Installed?

Post by Mint Lounger »

Like kmag, you have to keep dragging it around to do any reading. It's inconvenient. Compiz enlarges the entire screen, and makes things much more user friendly. Xzoom is less convenient to use than kmag, anyway...for a magnifier you have to drag around. It's fine for occasional use, just not frequent use. I thought xzoom didn't work at all, because when it first loads through the terminal, it flickers like wild, and seems to be stuck as a small square in the upper right corner. Turns out you have to right click its tab in the panel and select "move." (Probably because I prefer the panel to be at top, due to the physical arrangement of my dual monitors...and sometimes a program's window opens with the topmost part overlapped by the panel.) Anyways, Compiz is great, so problem solved.
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