Wayland support in Cinnamon?

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Huecuva
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Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Huecuva »

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this discussion. If not, please point me in the right direction.

I'm just curious about what progress is being made on having Cinnamon support Wayland? In all of my googling I can't find anything on the topic that is less than a year old. A lot can happen in a year. Is there any news? X11 is becoming painfully obsolete and it would be great if Cinnamon would support Wayland. I really like Cinnamon and a lot of the features it has that I have not seen in any other DE, like the option to right click on an icon in the panel and move the open application to "the other monitor" has made things much easier for me over the last few years.
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Hoser Rob
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Hoser Rob »

Huecuva wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:15 pm ... X11 is becoming painfully obsolete ....
Becoming? It's been that way for years.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. The only ones that really support it now are Gnome and KDE. I don't think any other desktops have the dev resources to do it.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
haanpm
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by haanpm »

It would be logical to at least have a some kind road map for supporting Wayland. Or maybe there is but it is not public yet?
Is it a viable option for Cinnamon to keep using X11 after 5...10 years from now?

Of course it is an option too to start using another WM which supports Wayland. I mean, at some point if using X11 based Cinnamon becomes too problematic and if there are no dev resources to implement Wayland to Cinnamon.

Maybe future is brighter and resources will emerge one way or another.
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Crito »

X11 may be old and crusty but everything works. I can't even get a decent on-screen keyboard (like Onboard) for Wayland. The one in Gnome doesn't even have arrow keys and KDE's crashes the whole desktop environment. It's a little ridiculous.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for progress but seems backwards when the big corps like IBM/Red Hat and Canonical who are pushing Wayland expect independent developers to all rewrite their code to make it work. Maybe they should allocate more money for Wayland development and less to executive pay raises and bonuses. </end rant>
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Neigdoig
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Neigdoig »

I'm not doing anything with Wayland, as I'm too dumb to really know how to set it up properly for Nvidia GPU's. Mine's actually obselete (Chock that to planned obselecense. Thanks, NVIDIA).
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MikeNovember
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by MikeNovember »

Hoser Rob wrote: Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:16 am
Huecuva wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 3:15 pm ... X11 is becoming painfully obsolete ....
Becoming? It's been that way for years.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. The only ones that really support it now are Gnome and KDE. I don't think any other desktops have the dev resources to do it.
Hi,

Mate 1.26 is partially compatible with Wayland. Work is in progress, future versions will probably be fully compatible.

Regards,

MN
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Agentl074
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Agentl074 »

I don't see why it wouldn't be supported at some point... after all, Cinnamon is build off of Gnome. I kinda figured the latest Cinnamon was built off of Gnome 42 -- which would make it easier to integrate Wayland?
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Hoser Rob
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Hoser Rob »

Crito wrote: Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:04 pm X11 may be old and crusty but everything works. ...
:lol:

Did you know that X11 allows programs to grab exclusive control of input?

Which means that if a running program that does this crashes you have no user input at all. The only way to recover is with the power button, which has a high risk of file system corruption in Linux? Many games do grab control like this, seen many examples of this sort of problem on this forum.

And further, windowed programs can inject keystrokes into other running programs in other windows. In other words, X11 is inherently insecure, by design, and they won't fix it.

I could go on ranting but I think that should be enough. Bring on Wayland.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by antikythera »

Agentl074 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:34 am I don't see why it wouldn't be supported at some point... after all, Cinnamon is build off of Gnome. I kinda figured the latest Cinnamon was built off of Gnome 42 -- which would make it easier to integrate Wayland?
Cinnamon is built off GTK 3.24.XX still
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Huecuva
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Huecuva »

Sounds like Cinnamon with Wayland is still a pretty long ways off. Wayland needs more maturing time and Cinnamon just needs a whole lot more modernization (newer GTK or even QT) even before Wayland can be supported.

Yay. :(
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Agentl074 »

Since they are starting to send Wayland compositors in 20.3 package updates now, I think they are building things up for including Wayland at some point. Yes, it may be a ways off yet... pun or no pun lol, but I think we are seeing the stage being set up for Wayland support -- with hope :)
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SMG
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by SMG »

Agentl074 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:08 pm Since they are starting to send Wayland compositors in 20.3 package updates now
Who is "they"?

Ubuntu 20.04 has support for Wayland so those packages have always been there.
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by Degra »

Agentl074 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:34 am I don't see why it wouldn't be supported at some point... after all, Cinnamon is build off of Gnome. I kinda figured the latest Cinnamon was built off of Gnome 42 -- which would make it easier to integrate Wayland?
Nope, Cinnamon and Muffin are hard forks of Gnome 3 and Mutter.
According to Linux Mint's own website (https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_vanessa_c ... atsnew.php)
Quote
The biggest change in Cinnamon 5.4 is a major rebase of its window manager. Muffin is now based on Mutter 3.36 and its codebase is much closer to upstream than before.


Mutter 3.36 is from March 2020.
So Muffin is reasonably up to date, though there have been more Wayland-enablement, improvements and fixes in Mutter since then.

But indeed, I think we can be hopeful that they have rebased to recent enough versions that Wayland support becomes a possibility.
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MiZoG
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Re: Wayland support in Cinnamon?

Post by MiZoG »

Rebasing Muffin closer to upstream was a crucial step for Cinnamon.
Wayland is the future. But be patient, its development has been admittedly slooow.
Nowhere parity between X and wayland has been achieved. There are still lots of applications or functions not supported properly in wayland.
The problem would start when there will be (major) things not achievable on X. You won't be able to run a desktop environment, games and major apps on X and you will have to switch to Wayland.
For the time being, it is still the other way round.
Only 10% of Firefox users on Linux use Wayland!
Boiling Steam made its own survey based on ProtonDB stats showing that a majority of Linux gamers use nvidia cards for which Wayland is not an option.
So sit back and take with a pinch of salt what the fanboys tell you on tube.
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