Linux Mint 21.1 “Vera” Cinnamon released!

[clem]

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=4454

[Tovad101]

Merci beaucoup pour une belle sortie livraison!

[GELvdH]

Just finished upgrading three (2Desktops and a Laptop) to LM 21.1, everything went smooth as silk so to speak. Thanks Clem and the minions working in the shadows, another outstanding product.

[Moem]

I'm using it and liking it. Thanks to the team!

[norse]

Looking good

[JesseRBassett]

Using it and loving it. Good job to the Linux Mint team!

[motoryzen]

Been using it since the beta about a week ish ago. Loving it overall except for only two weird problems. Number 1.....I keep encountering. ( and noticed it was a randomly occurrence with Mint 20.3, 20.2, 20.1, 20 also )

1. When I'm navigating to change the default icon of any item be it a game shortcut or movie title...one or more open Nemo windows will auto-close.

2. The regular Steam version ( regular imo. sudo apt install steam basically the same as Software Manager's .deb steam) refuses to install citing dependency hell. I had to use the Flatpak version and it was a need in the haystack search to figure out how to make actual desktop shortcuts ( I keep all games via individual launchers in a nemo folder.

Temporary minor setbacks...but overall..it's working well. This isn't a cry for help yet and I'll make a topic post if needs be.

Back to a more positive note, I notice a minor weird bug that was present in 20.3 and older is no longer, so far, present in Mint 21 as well as Mint 21.1.

When I used to edit panel items in Cinnamon while the panel was set to auto hide, upon completing the editing..that section of the panel would stretch the icons... no more.

Good job Mint Cinnamon team.

[JesseRBassett]

The only issue I have noticed... if it is an issue @ all is my usb wifi keeps disconnecting occasionally. But its no biggie as I mainly use ethernet.

[GELvdH]

I believe we should list any technical issues under the appropriate Forum heading rather than here.

[Moem]

I believe we should list any technical issues under the appropriate Forum heading rather than here.

If people want help with them, then that is certainly the way to go.

[mattlach]

So, this seems like mostly a fluff release with UI changes.

I always wish all projects would just pick one UI and leave it alone and never mess with it again, but I guess that's just me.

Oh, and flatpak integration, something no one wants.

If it's not in the apt repositories it will never find it's way on any system of mine.

Apt or bust.

[Artim]

I too am an "apt or bust" user who wouldn't dream of using a flatpak or a snap.

But for every one of us "apt or nothing" users, there's about a zillion and twelve who want "the latest version" of whatever software and are unwilling to wait for it to appear in the Ubu/Mint repositories.

As for the UI, you should be glad it's "just fluff" instead of the sudden huge changes in the entire interface like Gnome and KDE have done, throwing their users for a loop. That's yet another reason I'm a Xfce fanboy (besides the speed and stuff).

Any "fluff" you don't like is easily changed back to whatever you want.

[Moem]

flatpak integration, something no one wants.

May I have a link to the results of the survey you surely must have conducted in order to come to this conclusion?

[Pjotr]

Furthermore: looks do matter. They're not the only thing of importance, far from it. But they count.

A thing of beauty is a joy forever.... And I love the heightened beauty of Vera.

[JosephM]

flatpak integration, something no one wants.

May I have a link to the results of the survey you surely must have conducted in order to come to this conclusion?

Lol. Best answer so far

[mattlach]

I too am an "apt or bust" user who wouldn't dream of using a flatpak or a snap.

But for every one of us "apt or nothing" users, there's about a zillion and twelve who want "the latest version" of whatever software and are unwilling to wait for it to appear in the Ubu/Mint repositories.

As for the UI, you should be glad it's "just fluff" instead of the sudden huge changes in the entire interface like Gnome and KDE have done, throwing their users for a loop. That's yet another reason I'm a Xfce fanboy (besides the speed and stuff).

But for every one of us "apt or nothing" users, there's about a zillion and twelve who want "the latest version" of whatever software and are unwilling to wait for it to appear in the Ubu/Mint repositories.

Silly people. Everyone who knows anything about software knows that you never jump on the latest and greatest thing. Let someone else be the alpha/beta tester unless you absolutely need a feature a new version provides. There is no value in being "first" when it comes to software. In fact, only reason I upgraded to Mint (I was on 20.3 until yesterday) was because when I got a new video card the Nvidia 525 drivers crashed 20.3 when the xserver was loaded, so I decided to try upgrading Mint to the latest version to see if that helped. (it did)

Never update to a newer version just because it is newer. Make sure you really need the features it offers, and if you don't, stay on th eolder version as long as possible, until it is no longer maintained.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, the unitary package manager that manages the entire dependency tree of all packages, and makes sure they are up to date and patched to the latest security level is one of the main benefits of using linux.

Transitioning away from that to a model where you have to trust each individual package maintainer (rather than the distribution project) to include good patched dependencies is IMHO a liability and kind of breaks the way linux is supposed to work. And that's before we even start talking about the bloat this causes with multiple versions of the same dependencies spread out across the system, each in their little flatpaks.

Besides, if you really need the absolutely latest version of a package, most projects have their own PPA's (though - of course - you ahve to vet those as well to make sure they are trustworthy, as PPA containing compromised or unstable packages can be a real problem.

Honestly, I absolutely abhor flatpak/snap distribution. flatpak is great compared to snaps as it avoids the "ubuntu trying to take over the world of linux" thing, but still that's lie saying its' better to just have a fractured rib than to have a broken one. Neither are something you should be seeking out. It's just plain wrong, and should be stopped before it creates enough critical momentum that the proper way of doing things, with the system package manager is no longer viable because all of th epackages have migrated to flatpaks or snaps.

This is a slow motion disaster for Linux in progress, and I absolutely have to speak up every time I see it.

I don't care how much easier it is for the developers. It is just plain wrong. If I wanted to use Windows I would.

Please don't kill Linux. Kill flatpak/Snaps/AppImage instead.

Any "fluff" you don't like is easily changed back to whatever you want.

Yeah, I have everything back at minty classic, and a traditional white mouse pointer now, and I am much happier. The bright colors were just annoying. As far as I am concerned, the worst possible reason to do anything in life is because it is trendy or popular. User interfaces are no different. The best user interface is the user interface that goes 20 years without changing. Never move or redesign anything. This is something Everyone in the industry gets wrong. UI's purpose are to get shit done, not to be pretty. As soon as you stray from that you have missed the point. Every single change you make should be justified from a "does this provide better usability than the existing UI that outweighs the disruption any UI change causes" and if the answer is no, then it shouldn't be implemented.


More and more I am starting to wonder if I am using the wrong Distribution. I transitioned to Mint back when Ubuntu introduced the Unity interface and I hated it. I had only used Ubuntu for a few years. Previously I was a Gentoo guy for several years, but in my post college life I got tired of constantly fixing things that broke when I also had to go to work, and wanted a more stable experience.

The reason I say this is that most of the stuff the team brags about in the blog/release posts are utterly uninteresting to me. Going over th elast several releases:

1.) Flatpak: don't care. I use apt from the command line. If its not in apt, it's not on my system.
2.) Software manager: Don't care, I use apt from the command line. If its not in apt, it's not on my system.
3.) Warpinator: Not sure I want a random app portscanning my network for devices. I'd rather add every device manually. In fact, I want any device on my network to remain completely silent and not try to talk to any other device on my network unless I explicitly tell it to.
4.) Sticky notes: Seriously? Why would I want this bloat with my system?
5.) Thumbnails? Not important. Waste of time.
6.) UI changes? If I could still be using the UI of old school Gnome 2 with subtle non-jarring colors, I would. I like UI's that stay fixed over time.
7.) Hypnotix IPTV player? More bloat. Why would I want this? Who even watches IPTV streams?
8.) Web apps? Why when I can open them in a web browser?
9.) What are even spices? I've been using Mint Cinnamon Edition as long as it has existed and I've never used one and don't really care.
10.) Bluetooth? I don't use bluetooth for anything. It's unreliable poor quality garbage, and a security risk. Everything wired or bust. My motherboard doesn't even have bluetooth on it, and I don't want one that does.

I like Mint because it is an operating system that works out of the box with a usable desktop that reminds me of Gnome 2 but is cleaner, but man, it could do without all of the useless bloat. An operating system is supposed to be a clean slate onto which you can install the programs you use. It should never try to be an "everything for everyone" ecosystem of apps. Mint would be better off if they dropped all the useless shit. Sticky notes, bulk renamers, IPTV players, etc. etc. and focus on what really matters. Making a good operating system.

Just give me a barebones operating system with a working desktop, and let me install whatever I use, not force everything everyone in the universe might want to use on me. Let individual software projects worry about developing apps. I can install the ones I use and need.

Here I am upgrading to a new version again, and for like the 20th time I have to go through and remove all the stupid bloat I'll never use because it was pre-installed for some stupid reason. Thunderbird? I haven't used a local mail client since the 90's. Inkscape? Why would an operating system ship with a preinstalled vector drawing package? For the 0.001% of people who actually do vector art? It's ridiculous. I just uninstalled Thunderbird, Inkscape, "Draw" (why when gimp exists?) Hypnotix, Transmission, Pix, Hexchat, Webapp-manager, Celluloid (why when VLC exists?) etc. etc.

I'm not saying that no one uses these things. But I don't. There are also things I use that many other people don't. My standard installs all include Gimp, ClamTK, Gparted, FileZilla, Virtualbox, etc. etc. I don't expect an operating system to have everything I use preinstalled. Others shouldn't need or want that either. Ship it blank. base operating system and window manager/desktop, and nothing else. Let people install what they want. If you need a web browser you can install it. make it barebones. End the bloat.

I could always just install Debian or Ubuntu Server Edition, and install the Cinnamon desktop on top of it, but the Mint project has neatly packaged Cinnamon and all of its themes in ways that often break when you do that.

I just wish there were a barebones Mint Cinnamon edition without all the bloat and useless crap focused solely on being a good OS onto which users can install what they want.

You don't want to be a jack of all trades, and a master of none.

[coffee412]

I really like it.

You know its the one flavor of linux that I can trust to not let me down. Its the sister ship of debian. I run it on my venerable Ryzen x1800 right now in a VM and everything just works. I like the Hypnotix program too although the content is a bit uneven. Its nice to catch something on IPTV while Im logged into a server or other computer waiting for something to complete. I kinda think that the developers happen upon some software that is kinda neat and then they include it in the base install. It gives the developer of the program a chance to show off something that others might enjoy too.

Of course, I do share with some others the non interest of flatpaks and snaps. Its just not for me. If others enjoy those then thats fine. However, I would not enjoy sitting down and troubleshooting them. I imagine in time they will find their nitch.

I run the Mate desktop. I never got into cinnamon as I just want a nice clean desktop that is a step above something like Xfce.

I want to just thank you Clem and all the developers. This really is a sweet operating system!

[Dullard du Jour]

Silly people. Everyone who knows anything about software knows that you never jump on the latest and greatest thing. Let someone else be the alpha/beta tester unless you absolutely need a feature a new version provides. There is no value in being "first" when it comes to software. In fact, only reason I upgraded to Mint (I was on 20.3 until yesterday) was because when I got a new video card the Nvidia 525 drivers crashed 20.3 when the xserver was loaded, so I decided to try upgrading Mint to the latest version to see if that helped. (it did)

Never update to a newer version just because it is newer. Make sure you really need the features it offers, and if you don't, stay on th eolder version as long as possible, until it is no longer maintained.
.
.
.
You don't want to be a jack of all trades, and a master of none.

Well....I really have to agree with you on all points. Constant changes of GUI's only pisses people off, it does me. Leave what is there, if a new GUI is available then offer it as well, but don't auto install it. Same with other programs, fonts, etc. Make it optional but installable. After I installed Zorin Pro I went in and uninstalled the "crap" that it auto installed. I did the same with Mint; went in and uninstalled a ton of packages and then used Menu Editor to arrange stuff in an order that made sense to me.

But, the problem is when you are the user, you have very little say in the direction the software goes. Sure, many Open Source groups will tell you that they listen but in the end...they do what they want. The fact that I have several terabytes of drive space does not mean the developers can assume it is OK to consume my space with their flatpaks.

I can usually tell when a program is about to take that plunge into uselessness...the developers start focusing more on pretty colors and nic-knack trinkets for the GUI. When the best they can do is offer a ton of new pretty colors and useless eye candy features instead of focusing on bugs, compatibility, etc. then it is usually a short path to lost users.

[mattlach]

Silly people. Everyone who knows anything about software knows that you never jump on the latest and greatest thing. Let someone else be the alpha/beta tester unless you absolutely need a feature a new version provides. There is no value in being "first" when it comes to software. In fact, only reason I upgraded to Mint (I was on 20.3 until yesterday) was because when I got a new video card the Nvidia 525 drivers crashed 20.3 when the xserver was loaded, so I decided to try upgrading Mint to the latest version to see if that helped. (it did)

Never update to a newer version just because it is newer. Make sure you really need the features it offers, and if you don't, stay on th eolder version as long as possible, until it is no longer maintained.
.
.
.
You don't want to be a jack of all trades, and a master of none.

Well....I really have to agree with you on all points. Constant changes of GUI's only pisses people off, it does me. Leave what is there, if a new GUI is available then offer it as well, but don't auto install it. Same with other programs, fonts, etc. Make it optional but installable. After I installed Zorin Pro I went in and uninstalled the "crap" that it auto installed. I did the same with Mint; went in and uninstalled a ton of packages and then used Menu Editor to arrange stuff in an order that made sense to me.

But, the problem is when you are the user, you have very little say in the direction the software goes. Sure, many Open Source groups will tell you that they listen but in the end...they do what they want. The fact that I have several terabytes of drive space does not mean the developers can assume it is OK to consume my space with their flatpaks.

I can usually tell when a program is about to take that plunge into uselessness...the developers start focusing more on pretty colors and nic-knack trinkets for the GUI. When the best they can do is offer a ton of new pretty colors and useless eye candy features instead of focusing on bugs, compatibility, etc. then it is usually a short path to lost users.

Sounds like we are on the same page.

I know there are more of us out there.

I wonder how difficult it would be for the team to release a barebones version of Mint.

You know, the Mint Desktop, and administrative tools only. Everything else the user gets to install themselves based on their needs.

I can't imagine it would take that much time, and I'm sure lots of people would use it.

[SMG]

Inkscape? Why would an operating system ship with a preinstalled vector drawing package?

Linux Mint does not come with Inkscape so that's a pretty impressive feat you have accomplished by removing something which wasn't there in the first place.

Your post is basically the same diatribe you put in the Linux Mint 21 release announcement starting with this post.