[solved] LMDE 7

[TaterChip]

I was about to pull the trigger and upgrade my Linux Mint 21.1 to LMDE6. Then I watched a video that stated they had removed the driver manager from LMDE6. My machine runs a Nvidia graphics card and in the past I have needed to go get a printer driver. I realize that it's not often I would use the Driver Manager software, but I have used it in the past.

The video that I watched stated that if you needed to update drivers, you could just do it from the terminal. While that might very well be the case, I would rather go back and deal with Microsoft's BS for two solid weeks to reclaim my computer from them, than spend two minutes in the terminal. I would like to get my computer on a Debian based system, but this one thing is keeping me from that. After several months of trying other distros for my daily driver, I landed on Linux Mint because it just works. In coming over from Microsoft, I needed something that would just work. I did not have the knowledge to go in and fix a lot of things that were not working. I've got MX Plasma on my media server machine, and there were things that I could not get to work for my daily driver.

Would it be possible to get the driver manager in LMDE7?

[SMG]

I was about to pull the trigger and upgrade my Linux Mint 21.1 to LMDE6. Then I watched a video that stated they had removed the driver manager from LMDE6.

I suggest not taking advice from whoever made that video if they told you Driver Manager was "removed". Driver Manager does not exist in LMDE versions. It never did.

Driver Manager is based on underlying Ubuntu functionality so it is only available in Linux Mint main edition versions.

[TaterChip]

I was about to pull the trigger and upgrade my Linux Mint 21.1 to LMDE6. Then I watched a video that stated they had removed the driver manager from LMDE6.

I suggest not taking advice from whoever made that video if they told you Driver Manager was "removed". Driver Manager does not exist in LMDE versions. It never did.

Driver Manager is based on underlying Ubuntu functionality so it is only available in Linux Mint main edition versions.

When they were saying that it had been removed they were comparing it to the regular version of Linux Mint.

If memory serves me right, MX Linux has a driver manager and it's based on Debian. So why can it not be added to LMDE? I'm currently having hardware problems with my MX machine, Otherwise I would boot it up to confirm my memory.

[SMG]

If memory serves me right, MX Linux has a driver manager and it's based on Debian. So why can it not be added to LMDE?

LMDE is not based on MX Linux. It is based on Debian.

The purpose of LMDE is to make sure Linux Mint could continue if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. LMDE is a backup plan. It is not designed/developed as its own distro to which one would make feature requests. There is not a separate development team for LMDE.

While it is fine for you to say you would like a Driver Manager equivalent in LMDE, creating one would be outside of the scope of the current LMDE project so it is unlikely it would happen.

[TaterChip]

If memory serves me right, MX Linux has a driver manager and it's based on Debian. So why can it not be added to LMDE?

LMDE is not based on MX Linux. It is based on Debian.

The purpose of LMDE is to make sure Linux Mint could continue if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. LMDE is a backup plan. It is not designed/developed as its own distro to which one would make feature requests. There is not a separate development team for LMDE.

While it is fine for you to say you would like a Driver Manager equivalent in LMDE, creating one would be outside of the scope of the current LMDE project so it is unlikely it would happen.

In your first post, I understood it to say that because LMDE was based off of Debian, that there was not a way to do the driver manager. Maybe I was reading it incorrectly. That's why I was saying that I believe MX Linux was also based off of Debian just like LMDE. Therefore it should be possible to get a driver manager on LMDE.

Thank you for clarification on the rest. Mint had made it possible for me to get away from Windows on my daily driver. I was hoping that Mint was also going to make it possible for me to get back on to Debian. At the time MX wouldn't work for my daily driver.

Anyhow, I will no longer make LMDE requests, I'll find my own backup plan since I'm not a fan of where Ubuntu and Canonical is heading. It is reminding me too much of where I came from.

[SMG]

In your first post, I understood it to say that because LMDE was based off of Debian, that there was not a way to do the driver manager. Maybe I was reading it incorrectly. That's why I was saying that I believe MX Linux was also based off of Debian just like LMDE. Therefore it should be possible to get a driver manager on LMDE.

There is not a way to use the existing Driver Manager code on Debian because that code relies on functionality which does not exist in Debian (but does in Ubuntu).

...I'm not a fan of where Ubuntu and Canonical is heading. It is reminding me too much of where I came from.

Where is it heading and what does where it is heading have to do with Linux Mint? That's just a food for thought question; I'm not looking for an answer. I think a lot of people are making assumptions which are not based on fact.

[TaterChip]

Where is it heading and what does where it is heading have to do with Linux Mint? That's just a food for thought question; I'm not looking for an answer. I think a lot of people are making assumptions which are not based on fact.

I don't particularly like distro hopping, so if I can find a Debian version of Linux that will work for me, I would go ahead and make the change. No need to keep upgrading an Ubuntu version of Linux if I know ultimately I'm not going to stick with it. Mint has done a great job of rectifying some of the things that I do not like about Canonical/Ubuntu, but At some point, Mint is going to jump ship. I'm assuming that is why they have started the LMDE project.

Mint was the first distro that allowed me to escape Microsoft ( I tried debian based, Ubuntu based, and Arched based distros ). So I kind of have a warm spot for Mint, and I guess it is possible that I am making assumptions. I spent 30 plus years under the Microsoft umbrella and it seems to me that Canonical is making some similar moves as early Microsoft. Maybe they want to be the Microsoft of the Linux world I don't know. What I do know is there is also talk over on the Zorin forum of their users wanting to go to a Debian base and getting away from Ubuntu. So if two distros are looking for an exit strategy, there has got to be something more there that I don't know about.

I am the kind of person that likes to get things set up and leave it alone. That is why I started this thread in order to request a feature that I have used but was not currently available in LMDE. My hope was that LMDE would be a viable option for me if Mint decided to drop the Ubuntu version. I understand that LMDE is Mint's backup plan and not actively developed. That's fine.

If I can't find a viable Debian option for me to grow with, I will be just as happy running Mint 21.1 XFCE for the next 20 - 30 years.

[SMG]

Mint has done a great job of rectifying some of the things that I do not like about Canonical/Ubuntu, but At some point, Mint is going to jump ship. I'm assuming that is why they have started the LMDE project.

Your assumption is incorrect. As indicated by Clem in the Linux Mint blog post LMDE 6 “Faye” released!:

LMDE is a Linux Mint project which stands for “Linux Mint Debian Edition”. Its goal is to ensure Linux Mint would be able to continue to deliver the same user experience, and how much work would be involved, if Ubuntu was ever to disappear.

Rather than "jumping ship", LMDE is more the lifeboat should the main ship ever go down.

The first LMDE version was released in early 2014 which is nearly a decade ago.

What I do know is there is also talk over on the Zorin forum of their users wanting to go to a Debian base and getting away from Ubuntu. So if two distros are looking for an exit strategy, there has got to be something more there that I don't know about.

I suggestion you read/follow the Linux Mint blog rather than whatever it is you have been reading that leads you to the "looking for an exit strategy" line of thought.

[TaterChip]

I suggestion you read/follow the Linux Mint blog rather than whatever it is you have been reading that leads you to the "looking for an exit strategy" line of thought.

Thanks for the suggestion. The Linux Mint forum is the only one that I post on and read regularly. I happened to do a web search for something and the Zorin forum popped up in the web search and I read the thread to increase my knowledge base, Otherwise, I would not have known that form even existed.

As for my "looking for an exit strategy" line of thoughts... I have always been one to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. That includes trying to find a Debian distro that will fit my needs and if I cannot do that, then I will live on 21.1 XFCE till I no longer have a need for a computer.

As to "whatever it is that I have been reading." That is the only reason why I'm on Linux Mint at this point. This go round when I was looking to make the Switch to Linux I tried Mint 20-point whatever it was and It did not fit my needs. I had already tried several other distros and gave up and went back to Windows. Because I tried to stay up to date with what was going on with Linux by reading articles and watching YouTube channels. I saw a YouTube review on 21.1, I decided to give it another try.... And here I am finally able to make the switch.

I have accepted that LMDE is not actively developed and thus most likely will not be my lifeboat. I am 50 plus years old and I have zero desire to learn a lot of commands that will allow me to use the terminal. Feel free to delete this thread, At the time of posting, I was unaware that they weren't taking feedback on LMDE.

[soulstenance]

I have accepted that LMDE is not actively developed and thus most likely will not be my lifeboat. I am 50 plus years old and I have zero desire to learn a lot of commands that will allow me to use the terminal. Feel free to delete this thread, At the time of posting, I was unaware that they weren't taking feedback on LMDE.

I don't think anyone is claiming that LMDE is not actively developed and not taking feedback. Anyone actually claiming this is dead wrong as, within a week of 21.3 dropping, I got all the updated Mint packages from 21.3 on my LMDE 6 system. It was kind of a surprise for me but it's awesome and I love it. LMDE is simply developed by the same great team that makes LMUE (Linux Mint Ubuntu Edition, as I have dubbed it) and is released along Debian's release cycle instead of Ubuntu's.

If you're terrified of the terminal and need the Nvidia driver, for gaming or the like, then LMDE might not be for you. It's quite easy to install via the terminal but I understand not wanting to have to "tinker". However the default nouveau driver should be more than adequate for most non-gaming use cases and outside of installing drivers, LMDE is largely identical to LMUE and even (for now) ships newer packages than the Ubuntu base, since Debian is in a unique state right now where its repos actually have newer packages than Ubuntu LTS, though when the new Ubuntu drops in the spring followed shortly by Mint 22, this will likely no longer be the case.

Best of luck either way! Both editions of Mint are solid, actively supported, and updated, so I hope one of them continues to work out for you!

[TaterChip]

I don't think anyone is claiming that LMDE is not actively developed and not taking feedback.

That is the impression I got from the following exchange from above:

"The purpose of LMDE is to make sure Linux Mint could continue if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. LMDE is a backup plan. It is not designed/developed as its own distro to which one would make feature requests. There is not a separate development team for LMDE."

If you're terrified of the terminal and need the Nvidia driver, for gaming or the like, then LMDE might not be for you. It's quite easy to install via the terminal but I understand not wanting to have to "tinker". However the default nouveau driver should be more than adequate for most non-gaming use cases and outside of installing drivers, LMDE is largely identical to LMUE and even (for now) ships newer packages than the Ubuntu base, since Debian is in a unique state right now where its repos actually have newer packages than Ubuntu LTS, though when the new Ubuntu drops in the spring followed shortly by Mint 22, this will likely no longer be the case.

Best of luck either way! Both editions of Mint are solid, actively supported, and updated, so I hope one of them continues to work out for you!

Not terrified. I came from the MS DOS days, and having to go back to command line seems like a massive regression to 1980s. On my system I tried the 535 driver. It caused massive display lag. I had to revert back to the nouveau driver and deal with screen tearing.

[soulstenance]

That is the impression I got from the following exchange from above:

"The purpose of LMDE is to make sure Linux Mint could continue if Ubuntu was ever to disappear. LMDE is a backup plan. It is not designed/developed as its own distro to which one would make feature requests. There is not a separate development team for LMDE."

What I get from that quote is that there isn't a separate reporting system for LMDE and it is developed by the same team in tandem with the main distro. Unsure if that's what they meant as I can't get into their head, but any implication or inference that LMDE is not supported or actively developed I strongly recommend you throw out the window. It's a very solid distro for power users who don't mind dipping into the terminal at least a little bit. Having also used Debian, I can say that LMDE is basically Debian on easy mode (comparatively speaking) + fresh versions of all apps from the Mint team. Best of both worlds!

Not terrified. I came from the MS DOS days, and having to go back to command line seems like a massive regression to 1980s. On my system I tried the 535 driver. It caused massive display lag. I had to revert back to the nouveau driver and deal with screen tearing.

I hear you. I used to use MS-DOS a bit too and Command Prompt a lot, and I have to say that the Linux terminal is light years ahead of any current CLI tools on Windows, much less tools from the 1980s. Some Linux CLI apps almost have a quasi-GUI and even support mouse input sometimes - take a look at ranger and htop for reference. You also don't have to use the default bash shell - imo, it's kind of boring. I use and highly recommend fish (Friendly Interactive Shell) if you want a prettier terminal with nice features like automatic suggestions and color coding. I love the Linux terminal for a lot of things and it's insanely powerful if you know what you're trying to do.

That said, I totally get how it might feel like a regression, and I do think they should build a Debian-based driver manager, as their in house apps tend to be really good and I think they would kill it, but it doesn't seem to be a priority sadly. Sorry to hear the nouveau driver is causing issues. While not helpful right now, the nouveau driver is on track to eventually have the new opensource Nvidia driver built in, so I'm kind of excited for this even though I may not have an Nvidia PC by the time this actually hits mainline kernels.

[TaterChip]

What I get from that quote is that there isn't a separate reporting system for LMDE and it is developed by the same team in tandem with the main distro. Unsure if that's what they meant as I can't get into their head, but any implication or inference that LMDE is not supported or actively developed I strongly recommend you throw out the window. It's a very solid distro for power users who don't mind dipping into the terminal at least a little bit. Having also used Debian, I can say that LMDE is basically Debian on easy mode (comparatively speaking) + fresh versions of all apps from the Mint team. Best of both worlds!

The only Debian I have used is MX Linux. IF I could have gotten my external monitor working on it I would probably still be there. Mint was the only one I could get to effectively work with my external monitor.

I hear you. I used to use MS-DOS a bit too and Command Prompt a lot, and I have to say that the Linux terminal is light years ahead of any current CLI tools on Windows, much less tools from the 1980s. Some Linux CLI apps almost have a quasi-GUI and even support mouse input sometimes - take a look at ranger and htop for reference. You also don't have to use the default bash shell - imo, it's kind of boring. I use and highly recommend fish (Friendly Interactive Shell) if you want a prettier terminal with nice features like automatic suggestions and color coding. I love the Linux terminal for a lot of things and it's insanely powerful if you know what you're trying to do.

That said, I totally get how it might feel like a regression, and I do think they should build a Debian-based driver manager, as their in house apps tend to be really good and I think they would kill it, but it doesn't seem to be a priority sadly. Sorry to hear the nouveau driver is causing issues. While not helpful right now, the nouveau driver is on track to eventually have the new opensource Nvidia driver built in, so I'm kind of excited for this even though I may not have an Nvidia PC by the time this actually hits mainline kernels.

My biggest beef with CLI is I have no desire to try and learn and remember all the code. I had massive binders with DOS codes. Not doing that again.

I will patiently wait for an updated NVIDIA driver. My next computer wont have NVIDIA though. As to the driver manager, I think MX already has one, so I know it can be done.

[soulstenance]

The only Debian I have used is MX Linux. IF I could have gotten my external monitor working on it I would probably still be there. Mint was the only one I could get to effectively work with my external monitor.

I have heard good things about MX, never used it though. Wonder what the issue was.

My biggest beef with CLI is I have no desire to try and learn and remember all the code. I had massive binders with DOS codes. Not doing that again.

I will patiently wait for an updated NVIDIA driver. My next computer wont have NVIDIA though. As to the driver manager, I think MX already has one, so I know it can be done.

I can respect your position on that. Fish certainly helps somewhat with the memory thing though some knowledge is still required. I enjoy learning new things so this is a non-issue for me.

Yeah, there's no doubt in my mind it can be done, it's just whether the Mint team wants to do it or not. I feel like this will be heavily dependent on how much the community actually wants such a thing and how noisy about it the LMDE part of the community is. The Mint team historically listens to user feedback which is part of what I love about Mint.

Based on what you've said, I think LMUE is best for you - even though I'm no fan of Ubuntu, the Mint team steers well clear of the Snap nonsense and largely makes any issue that Ubuntu may or may not be, a non-issue on Mint. I personally use LMDE because I love Debian + Mint, not because I hate Ubuntu (even though I do a little bit).

[TaterChip]

The only Debian I have used is MX Linux. IF I could have gotten my external monitor working on it I would probably still be there. Mint was the only one I could get to effectively work with my external monitor.

I have heard good things about MX, never used it though. Wonder what the issue was.

I don't know. The system showed me exactly what monitor was plugged in. However, it wouldn't give me any display options. I was trying to divorce microsoft so my search continued and led me to Mint. It worked so I quit looking. I spent almost 6 months distro hopping trying to find a replacement for my daily driver.

My biggest beef with CLI is I have no desire to try and learn and remember all the code. I had massive binders with DOS codes. Not doing that again.

I will patiently wait for an updated NVIDIA driver. My next computer wont have NVIDIA though. As to the driver manager, I think MX already has one, so I know it can be done.

I can respect your position on that. Fish certainly helps somewhat with the memory thing though some knowledge is still required. I enjoy learning new things so this is a non-issue for me.
[/quote]

I used to be that way in my younger years. I would break things just so I could learn how to fix them. Now I just want things to work without all the tinkering.

... The Mint team historically listens to user feedback which is part of what I love about Mint.

A refreshing change from where I came from.

Based on what you've said, I think LMUE is best for you - even though I'm no fan of Ubuntu, the Mint team steers well clear of the Snap nonsense and largely makes any issue that Ubuntu may or may not be, a non-issue on Mint. I personally use LMDE because I love Debian + Mint, not because I hate Ubuntu (even though I do a little bit).

At least for now I can live with the original version, and I'm not opposed to installing 21.1 on a computer 20 years from now.

[soulstenance]

I don't know. The system showed me exactly what monitor was plugged in. However, it wouldn't give me any display options. I was trying to divorce microsoft so my search continued and led me to Mint. It worked so I quit looking. I spent almost 6 months distro hopping trying to find a replacement for my daily driver.

Hmm strange. Was it dropping to a TTY or not displaying anything at all? Just curious, kinda null, since I'm assuming you've moved on by now. If it was a driver or related issue, dropping to a TTY makes sense but must have been frustrating in any case.

Definitely on board with anyone divorcing Microsoft. I did that only a few years ago and it was the best choice I ever made. I dual booted for about 1.5 years after moving to Mint 20 but almost never touched Windows, then when Mint 21 dropped, I was like "What the heck am I doing?!" Nuked my Windows install and haven't looked back since.

I used to be that way in my younger years. I would break things just so I could learn how to fix them. Now I just want things to work without all the tinkering.

Yep haha, sounds about right. I, too, like things to just work on my main systems, which is why I keep rubber-banding back to Mint for those, but even there, Timeshift has been a lifesaver many times!

A refreshing change from where I came from.

At least for now I can live with the original version, and I'm not opposed to installing 21.1 on a computer 20 years from now.

Sounds great, though I would recommend 21.3 which just dropped. There's no downside to it and you'll get the very latest Mint specific packages. 20 years from now Mint 21.x will be EOL and we'll likely be on 31.x so I don't know about that haha. Hard to say what the future holds, that's a pretty long time.

[TaterChip]

I don't know. The system showed me exactly what monitor was plugged in. However, it wouldn't give me any display options. I was trying to divorce microsoft so my search continued and led me to Mint. It worked so I quit looking. I spent almost 6 months distro hopping trying to find a replacement for my daily driver.

Hmm strange. Was it dropping to a TTY or not displaying anything at all? Just curious, kinda null, since I'm assuming you've moved on by now. If it was a driver or related issue, dropping to a TTY makes sense but must have been frustrating in any case.

It wouldn't show anything at all. When I pulled up display manage it didn't even list the monitor for screen 2, but if I went into the NVIDIA driver area it showed me exactly what was attached. It was really weird and way above my pay grade.

Definitely on board with anyone divorcing Microsoft. I did that only a few years ago and it was the best choice I ever made. I dual booted for about 1.5 years after moving to Mint 20 but almost never touched Windows, then when Mint 21 dropped, I was like "What the heck am I doing?!" Nuked my Windows install and haven't looked back since.

I took a slightly different approach that offered me the same level of fallback protection. I purchased a new nvme for Linux. The win10 one was put back for just in case.

Sounds great, though I would recommend 21.3 which just dropped. There's no downside to it and you'll get the very latest Mint specific packages. 20 years from now Mint 21.x will be EOL and we'll likely be on 31.x so I don't know about that haha. Hard to say what the future holds, that's a pretty long time.

Win8 dropped in 2012, and that was the last time my windows machine got updated. I've been full-time linux for less than a year. Not really concerned about EOL. IF something comes along with significant improvements that benefit me I don't have a problem trying out a new system, however if software devs have screwed up what I use then I don't have a problem keeping my computer just like it is. There is one major downside to 21.3

I was having some issues with 21.1XFCE so I thought I would try Cinnamon. 21.3 had just dropped and I installed 21.3 Cinnamon. When I went to install all my programs, some of what I use in a daily basis was not showing up in the software manager. I didn't have time to try and figure thing out. I had already lost almost two days of work. Being self employed, my daily driver is also my work computer. I needed to get it back up and running as fast as possible, so I reverted back to 21.1 Cinnamon.

It was later determined that the software manager probably wasn't connecting to flathub. IMO, that should have been working out of the box.

[soulstenance]

It wouldn't show anything at all. When I pulled up display manage it didn't even list the monitor for screen 2, but if I went into the NVIDIA driver area it showed me exactly what was attached. It was really weird and way above my pay grade.

Ahh, dual monitors. I can't give much advice on that having never had a dual monitor setup before, but I have heard it can have issues under Linux. Way above my pay grade as well, but it does seem like you ran into one such issue.

I took a slightly different approach that offered me the same level of fallback protection. I purchased a new nvme for Linux. The win10 one was put back for just in case.

Solid approach, though I didn't go that route since I have plenty of drives in my system and I also don't like digging in there and messing with actual hardware. Hardware is not my forte, you might say.

Win8 dropped in 2012, and that was the last time my windows machine got updated. I've been full-time linux for less than a year. Not really concerned about EOL. IF something comes along with significant improvements that benefit me I don't have a problem trying out a new system, however if software devs have screwed up what I use then I don't have a problem keeping my computer just like it is. There is one major downside to 21.3

My main concern with running an EOL system, is, if it's internet connected, it will also no longer get security updates leaving you vulnerable. Yes, Linux has some "security by obscurity", but I still want my system to remain patched against the latest threats, so I would discourage this. Granted your threat model may be different than mine and I imagine you know what you need from your system.

I was having some issues with 21.1XFCE so I thought I would try Cinnamon. 21.3 had just dropped and I installed 21.3 Cinnamon. When I went to install all my programs, some of what I use in a daily basis was not showing up in the software manager. I didn't have time to try and figure thing out. I had already lost almost two days of work. Being self employed, my daily driver is also my work computer. I needed to get it back up and running as fast as possible, so I reverted back to 21.1 Cinnamon.

It was later determined that the software manager probably wasn't connecting to flathub. IMO, that should have been working out of the box.

Oof, that sounds really bad. I would have done the same to be honest, not because I can't fix Flatpaks, but because I'd be worried what else might be wrong. Was this an upgrade or did you do a fresh install? Sometimes upgrades can be problematic, but point releases should be pretty safe usually, due to very little changing to the base system. Give it a month or so and try again, if you feel ready, but definitely take a snapshot first!

If you need maximal uptime for work I hope you're making good use of Timeshift! I recommend daily automatic backups if you can manage it. This isn't Windows but things can still break sometimes, usually not due to Mint, but some stupid proprietary blob like Nvidia drivers. Nvidia broke my system once and I was so grateful I could roll back to a working state within minutes!

[TaterChip]

Oof, that sounds really bad. I would have done the same to be honest, not because I can't fix Flatpaks, but because I'd be worried what else might be wrong. Was this an upgrade or did you do a fresh install? Sometimes upgrades can be problematic, but point releases should be pretty safe usually, due to very little changing to the base system. Give it a month or so and try again, if you feel ready, but definitely take a snapshot first!

If you need maximal uptime for work I hope you're making good use of Timeshift! I recommend daily automatic backups if you can manage it. This isn't Windows but things can still break sometimes, usually not due to Mint, but some stupid proprietary blob like Nvidia drivers. Nvidia broke my system once and I was so grateful I could roll back to a working state within minutes!

It was a fresh install. I have tried twice to repair my computer with timeshift and it failed both times. And I ended up having to do a fresh install. I don't even have it set up now.

[soulstenance]

It was a fresh install. I have tried twice to repair my computer with timeshift and it failed both times. And I ended up having to do a fresh install. I don't even have it set up now.

Wow, you just can't win it seems.

I don't know what issue you were trying to resolve with Timeshift but any time I've had a bad update or broken the system myself with tinkering, TImeshift has succeeded 100% of the time, usually in mere minutes. Might have a bad hard drive either as your system or backup destination, I can't think why else Timeshift would fail under normal use. Timeshift does a file for file backup, not byte for byte, which isn't ideal, since it can't fix a broken partition or filesystem for example. But outside of that it should do the job.