best distro for "people" ?

[albertcamembert]

It's funny how arguing on a concept or an object got you suddenly personaly & namely treated as stupid and whatever - do you have personnal and emotionnal relationship to linux ? I'm not here as a troll, I wish to understand why :

- why focus on "windows like" superficial appearance when nothing work the same
- why all reading lead to no solution, why doc is from Ubuntu, none in french, nothing
- why easiest function such as sound or print are becoming biggest problems on earth, would I need a pHD for that sort of thing?
- why haters & "law-of-the-strongest" will give no help on forum where they do suscribe as helper
- why most answers are like "get update, change system, go for this or that distro instead and so on" when none of these solve anything, just like going faster into the future will change something to an old problem ???
- yes it is true, noone I know in a right wing politic will talk gently of linux, I don't want to make this political or get a judgment of any kind,, it's not my concern, I don't care, but this is a fact to me: in all alter-organisation there's people to focus on linux, it's almost like a shame to work on windows or mac, you know like a social traitor to make this joke, just like eating meat and so on. Now I see no reason for that, I see more like the name i'm using here....

OK, so, for what I've concluded from various discussion, it appears to me that Debian is the most stable, simple and rough version, then Ubuntu is a still conservative version of Debian with a focus on "windows users" (here a weird concept I can"t handle), and then Mint would be a "let's go to the future with our friends from silicon valley" version of that. On a second hand desktop, I do prefer XCfe to cinnamon, because yes I do prefer linux austerity to windows modern way

[albertcamembert]

and i think most of my post is too much speech, the main answer to my question is the last lines

[Neophyte]

I installed Linux Mint with Cinnamon for a friend and my parents. It is the first time they happily used it without trying to get Windows put back on their machine. If you are used to Windows, especially something like Windows 7, then Cinnamon will feel completely natural to you. Having to put in a password to install or uninstall doesn't mean the OS is insecure. Just the opposite. It means you don't have to worry about a kid or friend messing your install up if you let them use it.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

It's funny how arguing on a concept or an object got you suddenly personaly & namely treated as stupid and whatever...

That works both ways.

...- why focus on "windows like" superficial appearance when nothing work the same...

This is something you have a problem understanding or just don't want to understand (and it's getting quite tiresome). One of the points of Linux is it doesn't work the same "under the hood" which means it isn't subject to the problems and security issues of Windows so no, it won't work the same as Windows. Unlike Windows, Linux, at it's core, is highly customizeable; that's why there are so many variations, called distributions—distros for short—of Linux, Mint being just one of them. Within many distros, there are different desktops which, to oversimplify it, give the distro a different appearance and functionality onscreen.

May people who want to leave Windows and start using Linux are so used to using Windows, they are intimidated by Linux being different from Windows. Linux Mint Cinnamon is the distro and desktop that most Windows refugees (I'm not using refugee derogatorily; I'm one myself) will find the most comfortable to use when they first start.

Something many Windows refugees have problems understanding is what you have realized: Linux is not Windows. They forget how long it took for them to learn how to use Windows and get proficient at using it. There is a learning curve to climb when going from Windows to Linux. That is the way it is; you can accept that fact and learn how to use Linux or reject it and either stay with Windows or try something else. No one is forcing you to use Linux Mint Cinnamon.

...- why all reading lead to no solution, why doc is from Ubuntu, none in french, nothing...

I'm having trouble understanding all of this question. As far as why nothing is in French, this is an English language forum, probably because most users of the forum are native English speakers or, like you, understand English well enough to use an English language forum. There is an international set of subforums here that include a French one.

Many distros of Linux are built from other distros. Mint is built off of Ubuntu. Linux Mint Debian Edition is similar to the Ubuntu based Mint but is built off of Debian, which, coincidentally, Ubuntu is also built. It's not as well supported as the Ubuntu based version but many people prefer it to the Ubuntu based version. Again, it's your choice of which to use or to not use either.

...- why easiest function such as sound or print are becoming biggest problems on earth, would I need a pHD for that sort of thing?...

Methinks you may be exaggerating a bit. Since Windows, Mac, and Linux have a total of so many different versions, it's hard for manufacturers, to write drivers, especially for printers, that will work for every possible hardware and operating system that exists so there will be problems with hardware compatibility. Since there are far fewer Linux desktop users than Windows and Mac users, driver developers often just don't bother with including drivers for Linux, thinking it's not cost effective.

As far as sound goes, I've not found it to be a problem. Sound has worked just fine on all the notebooks, laptops, and the desktop I recently bought but haven't put into service yet. How you set it up will be different from Windows because, to sing the same old song, Linux is not Windows.

...- why haters & "law-of-the-strongest" will give no help on forum where they do suscribe as helper...

Well, what do you expect when you came here with a closed mind and such an antagonistic attitude? The people helping here are not getting paid for what they do, including the moderators and administrators. Why should they put up someone who is antagonistic and not open to change? You may not believe you are being antagonistic but that is how you are appearing to most people here.

...- why most answers are like "get update, change system, go for this or that distro instead and so on" when none of these solve anything, just like going faster into the future will change something to an old problem ???...

Because that's just the way it is. It's like buying a car, if you don't like a Volkswagen because it's not like a Mercedes, buy the Mercedes, don't moan and groan wanting to know why the Volkswagen isn't like the Mercedes.

...- yes it is true, noone I know in a right wing politic will talk gently of linux, I don't want to make this political or get a judgment of any kind,, it's not my concern, I don't care, but this is a fact to me: in all alter-organisation there's people to focus on linux, it's almost like a shame to work on windows or mac, you know like a social traitor to make this joke, just like eating meat and so on. Now I see no reason for that, I see more like the name i'm using here...

You claim you don't want to get political or get a judgement of any kind but that's exactly what you are doing. First politics are not allowed here, for good reason, and many people, including me find your right wing references very insulting. You came with a closed mind to a forum with people who like Linux, then you were harshly critical of Linux and you expect us to love you for it? Of course we are critical of Windows and Mac. If we weren't, we would still use them. Build a bridge and get over yourself.

[albertcamembert]

Lady fitzerald, I won't answer everything but

I'm now with three years trying to fix my printer, all indication from Ubntu was correct, my printer was nicely installed but the actual print was total chaos
I did my best to learn (and here is my point with windows, having an appearance of is not a good way to me) but nothing worked
so instead of helping peoples told me exactly this "get upate, your version is not supported..." wich I did again and again
But my problem never been solved and I also have a new one, my sound disappeared
solution are:

- helpers who give help and doc I'm trying to read and follow, no success
- documentation from stuff like hplip (not sure) was verrrrry omputer friendly, I can not understand that and when I ask noone answer
- I'm giving all what are asking, no result, no explanation, just "do this do that"
- I got no answer, is it log, is it hardware, is it magic?

you say, I'm not open to change ? where how ? Why ? how did you find this conclusion ? I just want my device working, nothing else ?

So I would change from a system I know (which is not true, the truth is that this system gave me no problem)
to a system I don't know but noone would explain

and some said I would need to update and then change and now again and again I would need to go for another new version ?
"new version" is that the solution ? no

now people say I'm not able to solve my problem because i'm dumb, ok, possibly, I'm dumb so I see sound level going up and down without sound so this is my bad because huuu ?

ok, so I have a system which is telling everything is ok, my device is supported, my sound is working, why asking when nothing work ? why being upset when people tells you are dumb and so on ? What's your point really ? buy another car ? I need to work and I need a tool working, whatever car with wheel I don't care... I'm now with a car without wheel and gasoil and people are screaming at me that I'm dumb and I should buy another one ?

Oh, I forgot another great solution, go back to mac-windows, that's the argument or do we try to make it better ?

[albertcamembert]

oh and ok you love linux, nothing scientific nothing objectively thought here uh, no criticism, that's about love, ok, nice, good job

I will find no help here or wherever, wish you best to all of you with absolutely no problem at all, prey for having none ever

ok got me banned for speech now, nothing's left

[Moem]

now people say I'm not able to solve my problem because i'm dumb

If that happened and I missed it, you should report it, because we don't allow that here.

ok got me banned for speech now, nothing's left

You have not been banned; au contraire, I have been removing posts in which people were rude to you from this topic. I'm not sure why you are playing the victim here.

[Hoser Rob]

...Oh, I forgot another great solution, go back to mac-windows, that's the argument or do we try to make it better ?

Well, a lot of users who need their computers for work/business should be running Windows. I don't have any Windows myself but I don't need it. Some people do.

And who is this "we" who is supposed to make it better? The fact is that many manufacturers have little or no Linux support. And many users have no idea how much work it takes to support an OS that doesn't even have stable APIs. It shouldn't come as a huge surprise that many mfrs are not willing to support an OS that has no stable kernel APIs, a very small user base, and inadequate testing facilities. That's not likely to change soon.

Linux developers, despite their efforts, can't write proper kernel drivers for hardware if they don't have adequate documentation or specs. There are a lot of reverse engineered Linux drivers for this reason. Even the Nvidia open source driver is reverse engineered.

I read something over a decade ago that listed 3 steps to having Linux that works, and it's reallyv true:

1. Use compatible hardware.

2. Do not mess with the OS.

3. Unless absolutely necessary stick to the software from the distro's default repos. And just wanting newest version doesn't count. This could be seen as a subset of #2.

Regarding the "use compatible hardware" part, I'm fully aware that doesn't do you any good if you already have hardware that you want to use with Linux. I've been there. But it still holds true. My main Linux box now has all Intel guts because they have the best support. You don't have to deal with reverse engineered drivers.

Again, I don't use Windows and have no desire to. But this white knight/black knight attitude you often see with Linux users who think that windows sux and Linux is perfection is just asinine. All OSes have their problems. Myself I think the list of Linux problems is longer than the list of Windows problems, but the Windows problems are much more disturbing.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...Again, I don't use Windows and have no desire to. But this white knight/black knight attitude you often see with Linux users who think that windows sux and Linux is perfection is just asinine. All OSes have their problems. Myself I think the list of Linux problems is longer than the list of Windows problems, but the Windows problems are much more disturbing.

You hit that head on the nail (or something like that ). Windows' problems are far, far more disturbing, which is why I gave MS the bird.

[t42]

- why all reading lead to no solution, why doc is from Ubuntu, none in french, nothing

There are hundred and hundreds of pages in French

Le manuel

Installation
Aucune installation n'est nécessaire, man est installé par défaut sous Ubuntu. Vous pouvez cependant ajouter des pages de manuel supplémentaires en installant le paquet correspondant.

Pages de manuel supplémentaires
manpages-fr : Version française des pages de manuel sur l'utilisation de GNU/Linux
manpages-fr-extra : Version française des pages de manuel des programmes
manpages : Pages de manuel (en anglais) sur l'utilisation de GNU/Linux
manpages-posix : Pages de manuel (en anglais) sur l'utilisation des systèmes POSIX
Pour le développeur

manpages-fr-dev : Version française des pages de manuel pour les développeurs
manpages-dev : Pages de manuel (en anglais) pour les développeurs
manpages-posix-dev : Pages de manuel (en anglais) sur l'utilisation des systèmes POSIX pour les développeurs
...
...

To open man pages in Linux Mint /Ubuntu start in terminal with man -L fr_FR.utf8 man

[Hoser Rob]

- why all reading lead to no solution, why doc is from Ubuntu, none in french, nothing

There are hundred and hundreds of [man] pages in French...

Sorry, but Linux/Unix man pages are useless for beginners and/or non techie users. They are and always have been meant for pro users who already know how the program in question works, they've just forgotten the exact syntax.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

- why all reading lead to no solution, why doc is from Ubuntu, none in french, nothing

There are hundred and hundreds of [man] pages in French...

Sorry, but Linux/Unix man pages are useless for beginners and/or non techie users. They are and always have been meant for pro users who already know how the program in question works, they've just forgotten the exact syntax.

I agree. I never could make heads nor tails of them.

[RollyShed]

Do you have to use Linux?
No?
How much have you paid to use Linux?
Zero?
How much are you paying for help?
Zero?

If Zero and No then you are lucky to receive the help you are getting.

My suggestion is buy an SSD (solid state drive), about 500GB and install that in the desktop. They are very cheap. From a USB stick, install the latest Linux Mint 21.2 with Cinnamon desktop.

1.) Does it work?
2.) Does the sound work?
3.) Does the printer work?
4.) Printer, have you installed the HP drivers from HP?


Windows versus Linux. Personally I find Windows illogical and not a sensible way of doing things. Linux usually starts to get something done (such as a new folder, right click) the same way and gets there with half the clicks and fuss.

[busdriver12]

I agree. I never could make heads nor tails of them.

I discovered and now use the tldr utility for this purpose. Always go here before delving into a man page. Can be found here

[ivar]

that Safety net, of requiring a Password is why Linux is SAFE!!!

.. and modern windows is no different - the UAC prompt keeps the OS stable by disallowing unintended changes

[rossdv8]

albertcamembert wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:06 pm
- why all reading lead to no solution, why doc is from Ubuntu, none in french, nothing

Maybe because the Frenchman who designed Mint Cinnamon, doesn't actually live in france, and because the greater part of the world these days spreads information in English first

As t42 replied:

There are hundred and hundreds of pages in French
Le manuel

Installation
Aucune installation n'est nécessaire, man est installé par défaut sous Ubuntu. Vous pouvez cependant ajouter des pages de manuel supplémentaires en installant le paquet correspondant.

Pages de manuel supplémentaires
manpages-fr : Version française des pages de manuel sur l'utilisation de GNU/Linux
manpages-fr-extra : Version française des pages de manuel des programmes
manpages : Pages de manuel (en anglais) sur l'utilisation de GNU/Linux
manpages-posix : Pages de manuel (en anglais) sur l'utilisation des systèmes POSIX
Pour le développeur

manpages-fr-dev : Version française des pages de manuel pour les développeurs
manpages-dev : Pages de manuel (en anglais) pour les développeurs
manpages-posix-dev : Pages de manuel (en anglais) sur l'utilisation des systèmes POSIX pour les développeurs
...
...
To open man pages in Linux Mint /Ubuntu start in terminal with man -L fr_FR.utf8 man

You should find something there.
I use a number of different Linux distributions, and while it is not my personal favourite, I still recommend Mint Cinnamon for beginners.

I installed Mint Cinnamon on someone's computer a couple of days ago, and while we started it up, little messages flashed on the screen as it automatically found and installed all the printers that were connected to my Wireless Network.
I am currently testing a version of Linux that has not even been released yet, and it still doesn't do that for me !

So while Mint might not be the best for you, It might be worth trying. Especially if, maybe, you post more about your organisation and what you need the Linux system to 'Do'. We already know you 'do stuff with images', but what?

GIMP is a great tool, but sometimes it seems complicated. Oh, let's be truthful. It is a 'Powerfull Tool' and it 'Is' complicated.
But for simple changes to images and graphics, there are easier tools to use. And if you decide to learn more - then there are so many video tutorials about Gimp on YouTube that you can learn everything you want to do, one step at a time.

It is the same for anything in Cinnamon or any other style of Mint.

An not everyone on the Forums wants to bite you. Some of us just get frustrated because there are people who ask their initial question and somehow sound as if they are being aggressive. I put that down to 'English not being their first language', and the grammar differences. So do some others here, particularly the person who has been dilligently removing posts that seemed like they were making you look bad somehow.

Anyway, 'If' you must find a 'Free' Operating System, there are not many choices other than Linux, and among the very best beginner friendly ones is Linux.
Once people here understand more about what you 'need' to 'do' on your computer, for your organisation to function, maybe people on the forum can guide you a bit more.

But they really do need to 'understand' clearly what you want and need to 'do' with the computer(s) . .

I had some trouble understanding those things in your first posts, but although I am only occasionally 'visiting' this forum these days, I will read them again and see if i can learn more.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I agree. I never could make heads nor tails of them.

I discovered and now use the tldr utility for this purpose. Always go here before delving into a man page. Can be found here

Github is just as bad as the man pages

[Hoser Rob]

I agree. I never could make heads nor tails of them.

I discovered and now use the tldr utility for this purpose. Always go here before delving into a man page. Can be found here

That is kind of cool. But if I'm interested enough to look it up I'd just as soon use the search engine. I like Startpage.

[majpooper]

I agree. I never could make heads nor tails of them.

I discovered and now use the tldr utility for this purpose. Always go here before delving into a man page. Can be found here

Github is just as bad as the man pages

Thank you - I thought it was just me not being the sharpest crayon in the box.

[RollyShed]

It's funny how arguing on a concept or an object got you suddenly...

You haven't answered a lot of the questions yet.

- why focus on "windows like" superficial appearance when nothing work the same

Things do work the same. It is like a book, hinge on the left, words read from left to right.

- why easiest function such as sound or print are becoming biggest problems on earth, would I need a pHD for that sort of thing?

Having done over 100 installations, I've only had one printer that gave problems.

- why haters & "law-of-the-strongest" will give no help on forum where they do suscribe as helper

Questions asked need answers. A lot of questions you've not yet answered.

- why most answers are like "get update, change system, go for this or that distro instead and so on" when none of these solve anything, just like going faster into the future will change something to an old problem ???

If those answers didn't fix things then the next step needs to be taken. No one knows if their suggested fixes won't work until tried. That's logical.

OK, so, for what I've concluded from various discussion, ... with a focus on "windows users" (here a weird concept I can"t handle), and then Mint would be a "let's go to the future with our friends from silicon valley" version of that.

Maybe it is like the book opening with the hinge on the left and print running left to right?

On a second hand desktop, I do prefer XCfe to cinnamon, because yes I do prefer linux austerity to windows modern way

Your preference. Others are allowed different preferences. On all the over 100 installations I've done are all Cinnamon. I also set things up so it looks logical, something usually not found on Windows.