I tried Debian XFCE and Xubuntu today

[Dullard du Jour]

I felt the urge to explore today so I first tried a live Xubuntu and I was left with the feeling that it was missing something, but I was not sure what that something was. Before coming to Mint, I had used Zorin and Zorin left me with the same feeling as Xubuntu did, just missing something. Still, Xubuntu was OK but not a distro that would drag me away from Mint.

I next tried a live Debian XFCE and did like it quite a bit more than Xubuntu. The one thing that did strike me about Devian XFCE was the lack of icons, fonts, and styles. I used Debian XFCE for about an hour and found it to be quite likeable and something I could use on a regular basis but for the lack of 'window dressing'.

Linux Mint truly offers a damn lot to its users, and Mint has spoiled me with its completeness as a distro.

[Hoser Rob]

Debian Stable, which I assume is the one you tried, is a bit vanilla. It ships desktops as the DE devs made it. You could add the things you're talking about. And it's really stable. The only thing more stable than Debian is Red Hat Enterprise Linux. And if you think Debian is a bit stodgy try RHEL.

Many Mint users wouldn't like Debian (or LMDE really) because the software is even older than Ubuntu based Mint's. Not getting the newest versions of things is one of the most common complaints from novices here, and that's for Ubuntu based Mint. ppas are for UBuntu as well, they are not supported in Debian and are a good way to break it. However you could install flatpaks and have it both ways.

My main problem with Debian has been that before Debian 12 Bookworm, they wouldn't include the nonfree firmware in their live iso's. This actually really ticked me off because I can see the point with nonfree codecs, but if these mfrs offer Linux firmware anyway, and you can't run it properly without it, it's not like they're going to sue if you offered live iso's with it included. You could argue that it was more efficient but this isn't the 90s and most users wouldn't care.

This has been a big selling point for most Debian based distros but now that Debian 12 includes the nonfree firmware in the iso, the reasons to not just install Debian have became much, much weaker.

I like Debian, obviously, and use MX in my main box because I like KDE. If I liked Cinnamon it'd probably have been LMDE. For many if not most users who might like Cinnamon more than I do, LMDE would still be probably better because of the forum. But I'm probably going to be installing Debian 12 KDE very soon.

[Night Wing]

I have 4 computers (2 desktop towers, 2 laptops). Each desktop tower has 3 hard drives in them. So there are a total of 8 hard drives. There are 5 hard drives running MX Linux Xfce, 2 hard drives running Mint Xfce and 1 hard drive running Debian Xfce. I am typing this message using Debian.

Like it was mentioned, there are things missing and not checked by default in Debian. As examples.

In Removable Drives & Media, under the Storage tab, the first three boxes are "not" checked by default so if one plugs in a thumb drive in a USB port, the thumb drive is not listed on the Desktop. Those three boxes are checked in both MX and Mint. The thumb drive is listed in the Thunar file manager though in Debian.

In Debian Gnome, there is an update indicator for the system, but the indicator is not listed in Xfce. I had to find it. Since I am not a fan of the linux Terminal, I use the Synaptic Package Manager.

In the SPM, using Search, the indicator is listed as:

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package-update-indicator

After installing it, the indicator shows up in the Systems sub menu as the Package Updater where I put the launcher icon for it on my Debian Panel since I do not use the Dock.

One of the things I use a lot is a calendar to remind me of things of importance to me. So I had to go back to find the calendar using the SPM. The calendar is found by using Search and typing in:

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gnome-calendar

Then the Calendar is listed in Accessories and then I put the calendar launcher icon for it on my Panel. Did the same thing for MX and Mint.

I also use a calculator, but it is not listed in Debian Xfce either. Again using the SPM, in Search I found the code for it as it is:

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galculator

After installing it, it is also listed in Accessories where I put the launcher icon for it on my Panel.

To sum up, Debian Xfce is pretty bland/vanilla compared to MX and Mint.

[Dullard du Jour]

Thanks hoser rob and nightwing for the information.

I will take my old Win 7 box and turn it into a Debian box and tool around it for a while. I really appreciate the instructions for adding other software. I am not a distro hopper, that is a path people use to find Linux nirvana, yet never finding, only adjusting to what they finally choose. Mint is fine for me and my use, but Debian will be a good insight into its Linux world.

[Hoser Rob]

... Mint is fine for me and my use, but Debian will be a good insight into its Linux world.

Well, if you want the type of support you get on this forum you may want to try LMDE unless just having the option of the Cinnamon desktop is an issue for you. Debian users have a high expertise level but the corollary to that is that they expect forum users to have done some research into their problems and they don't walk you through everything.

All Linux distros are similar. They're built from the same components, and the Linux kernel, which in reality is what Linux technically really is, is a separate project unconnected to any distro. What you're really using with Mint etc is GNU/Linux. Different distros are not exactly identical but they're more alike than different. So they all offer pretty good insight into Linux.

[Dullard du Jour]

For sure, the customer service and support is better with Mint, plenty of hand holding here for users. Which I suppose, is why Mint is so popular, and deservedly so. I did not consider LMDE, only because of a few posts in the past where it seem the more experienced users were more or less, pooh-paahing LMDE. I don't recall the angst of LMDE at the moment but, it would take little effort for me to burn and .iso and give LMDE a whirl.

[MurphCID]

I really thought LMDE 5 was excellent, I have had a failure to install on two machines now with LMDE 6, so YMMV. As I understand it, Debian xfce allows you the freedom to build on the base and make whatever you want from that build.

[Hoser Rob]

Well, there is an upside to more pro oriented support sites like Debian. When looking up things on their forum I find I may have to read something 3 times to get it. But the expertise is there and the results are pretty reliable. Whereas on many other user forms, esp. the newbie friendly ones, there are lots of ill informed answers and opinions. Which leads to having to go through pages and pages that never get anywhere.

[Hoser Rob]

I really thought LMDE 5 was excellent, I have had a failure to install on two machines now with LMDE 6, so YMMV. As I understand it, Debian xfce allows you the freedom to build on the base and make whatever you want from that build.

Did you successfully install Debian 12 (Bookworm) Xfce on one of those machines that LMDE 6 wouldn't install on? LMDE 6 used the Bookworm code base. How old are these machines?

[MurphCID]

No, I went back to what works for me 21.2. The laptops are less than three years old.

[t42]

Well, there is an upside to more pro oriented support sites like Debian. When looking up things on their forum I find I may have to read something 3 times to get it. But the expertise is there and the results are pretty reliable. Whereas on many other user forms, esp. the newbie friendly ones, there are lots of ill informed answers and opinions. Which leads to having to go through pages and pages that never get anywhere.

I fully concur with that observation. Also it is worth to mention that Debian (unlike LMDE) provides users with an option to repair their broken system: Debian installation DVD has a repair mode which creates an environment allowing user to enter into and repair their broken system. I successfully used it last year for restoring (broken with my own actions - it was not a distribution fault) my FDE Bookworm.

[Hoser Rob]

No, I went back to what works for me 21.2. The laptops are less than three years old.

Debian Stable, and distros based on it like LMDE, are really best with hardware that's at least 2-3 years old. That's the downside to all those old packages.

[MurphCID]

No, I went back to what works for me 21.2. The laptops are less than three years old.

Debian Stable, and distros based on it like LMDE, are really best with hardware that's at least 2-3 years old. That's the downside to all those old packages.

Yep, but on the bright side, Mint 21.3 works great!

[Hoser Rob]

,,, Debian Xfce is pretty bland/vanilla compared to MX and Mint.

I haven't tried Debian Xfce but I figure you're right, Debian is vanilla. But I don't mind that, for example I've seen too many themes that look pretty but just aren't as easy to read as the vanilla ones. The standard KDE Breeze theme is just easier to read than all the 'enhanced' ones you get with MX.

I resisted dark themes for years. They definitely seemed vanilla and somehow sad. But eventually I realized that they're just easier to read. I got over it.

Many distros just seem to try too hard to wow you IMO. I prefer something unobtrusive now.

A lot of users want to customize and personalize their desktop environment. I don't. I just want to get it working and maybe change a few defaults and then use it.

[bin]

Spiral Linux https://spirallinux.github.io/

Standard Debian build with the latest kernels, firmware and running backports and debian fasttrack for up to date packages as and when they arrive.

I say standard but also it is built with minimal use of meta packages which helps eliminate useless 'recommends' and other cruft, also allows removal of stuff so that uninstalling mousepad doesn't try to nuke the whole install.

'Debian done right' is a good way of looking at it. Different iso for each standard desktop.

Here's a silly thing - I've been XFCE since the loss of Gnome2. BUT Spiral's Gnome is so quick it's unreal. Nice set of extensions pre-installed and all work together..... it's enough to make me into a convert

Oh and it's bloomin' quick too!

[t42]

Spiral Linux https://spirallinux.github.io/

Standard Debian build with the latest kernels, firmware and running backports and debian fasttrack for up to date packages as and when they arrive.

Yes, Spiral Linux starting configuration is very sensible and OS boot time is very good. After installing Spiral Linux you have pure Debian without any external additions. Also it has good starting point for BTRFS setup.

Boot time for Cinnamon version:

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$ systemd-analyze 
Startup finished in 5.591s (kernel) + 1.299s (userspace) = 6.890s 
graphical.target reached after 1.074s in userspace.

[Hoser Rob]

Spiral Linux https://spirallinux.github.io/

Standard Debian build with the latest kernels, firmware and running backports and debian fasttrack for up to date packages as and when they arrive....

That sounds exactly like Debian sid/Unstable to me. If I had very new hardware and wanted a rolling release (the only reason I'd want one actually) I'd go for sid rather than Arch or similar. I prefer the Debian packaging system and I can't imagine Linux without Synaptic Package Manager.

I'll look at some Spiral reviews but I don't think I'll switch from Stable.

[t42]

That sounds exactly like Debian sid/Unstable to me.

It's not, Spiral Linux has standard Debian /etc/apt/sources.list and like any like standard Debian installation it can be easily reconfigured to testing repositories but it's up to user to edit their sources.list.

[Hoser Rob]

Interesting. Couldn't find a lot of reviews, Spiral is too new. Will look more later but I'm sticking with Debian myself. It's pretty responsive running KDE too.

[Hoser Rob]

..., Debian Xfce is pretty bland/vanilla compared to MX and Mint.

I liked MInt Xfce, used it for years. I can't run it any more because the little netbook I used it on can't really run any Mint or Ubuntu release so it has Antix. I have no experience with Debian Xfce but actually a DE that doesn't do feature updates a whole lot seems a very good fit with Debian Stable. I only briefly tested MX Xfce in a live boot, seemed nice but not really nicer than Mint Xfce to me.

KDE is more my thing, and I replaced Debian 11 based MX 21 KDE with Debian 12 KDE a week ago exactly. The only thing I'm missing about MX really is the toolkit. They make great tools.

The KDE in Bookworm is the last release until Plasma 6 comes out. So just security updates for it. That, like Xfce, is also very well suited to Debian.