Confusion .... What don't I understand ?

[Marie SWE]

This is always a good read: https://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

This article gets right to the heart of my original post !!!
I only referenced one aspect of it but it certainly hits the overall gist of my confusion.


Thanks for your time
Newbie221

I did read all your posts, but not all answers you got from them.

as for Linux being about privacy, then you are misinformed.
Linux is more about opensource and is mainly for server usage.. But there is the Desktop/Laptop world too, that most people/users refers to when using the word Linux, Those distros is mostly community driven as Mint is, but there is a few company's that is behind a few distros out there as Ubuntu, Redhat, Suse etc.

I'm guessing what you mean about spying is telemetry?
You should know there is some Linux software that uses telemetry too... you still have to read the fine print before installing some types of software
and Canonical that is behind Ubuntu do use some telemetry too in Ubuntu.. (if i remember right) ... I think(i do not know) but i think the Mint team has removed that crap before they built Mint.

Best way to watch if you have undesired network traffic that you dont like, is to install Wireshark.. But Wireshark can be a bit much to bite in to in the beginning.... So easiest way is to install the firewall OpenSnitch and you will get a popup for every app that is trying to go online, and the log will show what app connects to what IP.

If you is new to Linux, i strongly recommend that you still have one computer or dualboot with what Operating system you are coming from while learning Linux.
Linux will give you more then one day of frustration if i use soft words. *LOL*
So it is good to have one computer you still can use, just in case you tweak something and yous system dies.. and then you really need to go online and do something important as paying bills or whatever.. Then downtime is not so good so to speak. *smiling*

Linux as a desktop/laptop usage works well.. Not as good as Mac-OS or windows, but it still works well and it will become even better, as Linux for Desktop/laptop usage have made big steps over the soon to be 6years i have been using Linux..
It will give you some headache and frustration while you learn how it works, But that is general in life. We dont learn new things over night so to speak.

and as a last word.
Linux is not Windows as Mac-OS is not windows... Use the right tool for the right job.. You dont use a spoon to fix a roof leak so to speak.
So if you have need of some software that is designed for Mac or Windows usage.. use a VM or a second computer for that stuff instead of trying to make it run on Linux.. it will only give you pain and headache and hate in the end of trying to make those things run well in Linux.

[mudassir]

I thought the whole idea was to break away from these companies. Hence my confusion.

If I'm missing something please chime in and help me understand. It seems to me that if I had to use those services it would be way easier to stick with a windows machine.

Very well said... if the idea is to break away from those !#@$# then why would one use those services?

I wonder why? There are several great native options to do (almost) anything in here.. why to use #$%@#? IDK but I see most people using VS IDE or something for coding on Linux... I mean why Linux if it's really the VS you want?

[Hoser Rob]

I really don't see how Linux is supposed to be so great for anonymity.

Many snoopers use metadata, it's a very powerful tool. It's quite easy to see which operating system you're using. And what browser and extensions you have installed in it. You know how when you go onto a site to get a .deb file and the site automatically knows you'd want the Linux version? AFAIK that even works with the Tor browser.

You are then identified as using an OS used by less than 2% of desktop users. That makes things much easier for snoopers.

[Dullard du Jour]

I really don't see how Linux is supposed to be so great for anonymity.

Many snoopers use metadata, it's a very powerful tool. It's quite easy to see which operating system you're using. And what browser and extensions you have installed in it. You know how when you go onto a site to get a .deb file and the site automatically knows you'd want the Linux version? AFAIK that even works with the Tor browser.

You are then identified as using an OS used by less than 2% of desktop users. That makes things much easier for snoopers.

So very true. I downloaded some printer drivers from Brothers yesterday, the site instantly saw I was on Linux, then offered me deb or rpm.

[Newbie221]

You know how when you go onto a site to get a .deb file and the site automatically knows you'd want the Linux version?

Not been my experience thus far ..... Although I'm not saying it doesn't happen !!!
I've been to a number of web sites of late in search of various things and I've had to search out the Linux sections.

My concern is the progressiveness in certain companies in their attempt to access every bit of data they can.
This is "my" computer and I "do not" consent to what you want..... period !!!


Thanks for your time
Newbie221

[spamegg]

That mostly has to do with your browser communicating which OS you are using to the server you are connecting. Modern HTTP requests have a segment called "UserAgent". It contains that info.

There are ways to prevent / fake that, like https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... -switcher/

[Hoser Rob]

You know how when you go onto a site to get a .deb file and the site automatically knows you'd want the Linux version?

Not been my experience thus far ..... Although I'm not saying it doesn't happen !!!
I've been to a number of web sites of late in search of various things and I've had to search out the Linux sections.

Well, I never said they all do it, and that was not the point anyway.

My concern is the progressiveness in certain companies in their attempt to access every bit of data they can.
This is "my" computer and I "do not" consent to what you want..... period !!!

I understand, but this is the reality of the web. The economics are a bit messed up. With the exception of a few things like media streaming, users are simply unwilling to pay for web content. Yet they expect them to keep all those servers running, and they are not free. If you use say Google Earth or Google Translate, both those apps actually run on server farms costing over a billion dollars. Yet users expect content to be free. Scraping and auctioning user date is the only way anyone's ever found to pay for all that.

Personally I think the situation is a bit ridiculous but that's just the way it is.

Unfortunately just installing Linux doesn't escape the Google spying. That is not a trivial exercise, and doing so will also break a lot of web sites. You'd have to be very committed.

[mudassir]

I understand, but this is the reality of the web. The economics are a bit messed up. With the exception of a few things like media streaming, users are simply unwilling to pay for web content. Yet they expect them to keep all those servers running, and they are not free. If you use say Google Earth or Google Translate, both those apps actually run on server farms costing over a billion dollars. Yet users expect content to be free. Scraping and auctioning user date is the only way anyone's ever found to pay for all that.

Personally I think the situation is a bit ridiculous but that's just the way it is.

Unfortunately just installing Linux doesn't escape the Google spying. That is not a trivial exercise, and doing so will also break a lot of web sites. You'd have to be very committed.

A very good approach to address the topic but.... Is it just like that?

Why is there free cloud storage to backup phone contents of every living soul on this planet while I've to pay for every bit of web space for my website? Yes, there's a setting to turn off everything in this thing but does it really care about it? Who knows?

Why is the "What is that app?" free for everyone and it worth several billion $. They earn by ads? What about other platforms offering free photo sharing, video sharing, live calls, video calls? How do they manage to run those servers?

Some video streaming site, free for everyone is paying people to post their videos? People are doing full time jobs just by sharing stupid things... See, I am going to eat some ice cream? 24 hour wearing red clothes challenge?

Nothing records anything... but there is data... enough to make realistic images (and videos) of people from any region, any age, any race? The thing we've in pockets is able to talk, understand and reply in any spoken language on this earth? And it's free.. wow! Some free smart online service is able to reply anything we ask, in any possible written language and it is smart enough to be diplomatic? And some so called smart service was able to copy a journalist's voice so perfectly that it even breached the banks voice security system? And how about that service faking her on a video call? It had no access to any data,.. right? There is much more... but the question is.. from where the data is collected and fed to these "services" idk if it's the right word..

So, we were talking about "privacy"... what kind of privacy we're actually concerned about? Privacy on Linux... which variant?
I feel safer with Linux Mint than any other operating system on pc or a mobile device.

Personal opinion on using application software: I prefer and recommend to use open source software because those are not owned... somebody starts a project, share its code with others, other people write and contribute codes to make these software more functional.. and the source is open to download for anyone. Users of these software donate to support the project. And I prefer and recommend to use commercial software from people who make them for a living... they work alone or as a small team. They do this for a living, like a doctor or a shopkeeper and have no use of your data. Story with the tech giants is very different.

[Hoser Rob]

... Privacy on Linux... which variant?
I feel safer with Linux Mint than any other operating system on pc or a mobile device....

I feel safer in Linux too but it's a matter of degree.

There's no Linux variant (I assume you mean distro) that has any real advantage in privacy. Maybe one distro is set up better for that but there's nothing they'd be doing that you couldn't do in any other Distro. Linux distros all get their kernels from the :Linux Kernel Project or the distro they're based on, which get theirs from the kernel project. Most all that GNU wrapper stuff comes from the same place. There's not as much difference between distros as many think.

[mudassir]

I feel safer in Linux too but it's a matter of degree.

There's no Linux variant (I assume you mean distro) that has any real advantage in privacy. Maybe one distro is set up better for that but there's nothing they'd be doing that you couldn't do in any other Distro. Linux distros all get their kernels from the :Linux Kernel Project or the distro they're based on, which get theirs from the kernel project. Most all that GNU wrapper stuff comes from the same place. There's not as much difference between distros as many think.

Sorry to disagree... but I was talking about "variant".. there is a kid adopted by some giant.

[Hoser Rob]

... but I was talking about "variant".. there is a kid adopted by some giant.

Huh?

[Dullard du Jour]

Here is a fellow that says Mint is a "flavor". I have never see the word "variant" used to describe a Linux distribution, derivative, or flavor. It is likely though that I have probably done so at some point in my life.

There are a lot of terms used in the vernacular of the human race.

Linux Distribution Types

[mudassir]

I used a "different term" above for a reason... and everyone has right to agree or disagree with one's personal opinion in a decent and polite way like the gentleman Hoser Rob did. Though being too desperate to flaunt whatever knowledge we've is a different thing... don't think it's considered polite or civil in any society. Thank you for the link anyway.

[RollyShed]

If you is new to Linux, i strongly recommend that you still have one computer or dualboot with what Operating system you are coming from while learning Linux.

And I strongly disagree. Of the 50+ laptops and desktops I've done for users changing over, they get Linux and that's it with all of their files and folders. These files and folders are the data ones, not programme ones.

A classic case, my partner, Windows one day, Linux the next after Microsoft wiped everything off her Windows disk. Yes, she had all her files on a Linux backup disk that was connected only when I did backups.

Another, she couldn't get her assignments done with Windows. I installed Linux on her laptop, she got her assignments done, got her qualifications and got a job.

[Dullard du Jour]

I used a "different term" above for a reason... and everyone has right to agree or disagree with one's personal opinion in a decent and polite way like the gentleman Hoser Rob did. Though being too desperate to flaunt whatever knowledge we've is a different thing... don't think it's considered polite or civil in any society. Thank you for the link anyway.

It looks like that post was in response to mine. I assure you, there is no desperation on my part to flaunt knowledge. I appreciate the fact that when my doctor speaks to me he does not use phrases like "well, that thing-a-ma-jig" still seems to be doing well. I like it when he uses the correct words in describing my body parts. It is reassuring.

[Newbie221]

I do appreciate everyone's input, however this thread has taken a bit of a turn !!!

I do not wish to turn this thread into a debate about security and spying.
My original post was about people jumping to Linux and wanting to bring their previous OS perks with them. (that’s my confusion) For me, my end goal is to rid myself of all MS and Google associations. And yes I do understand that there will be a degree of spying that will take place regardless of what I do.

I just can’t understand why so many people are mad enough to quit a brand then want to bring that brands associations and baggage with them to a new experience. If you truly need MS office or Google services my advise is to stay with those ecosystems. Perhaps duel boot or multiple computers could be a viable solution for separating your personal and business accounts.



Thanks for your time
Newbie221

[mudassir]

Sorry, I was also a part of some unwanted debate. And sorry to everyone for any confusion or some harsh statement from my end.

I agree with you on this point... There is no need to use a Windows / Mac application on Linux as there are lot of native applications available to achieve almost any task.. If I remember correctly, I said in this thread 'They should stay with Windows if it's really VS they want'... but not every computer user is a computer expert or professional.. IMO, There are some cases when people want to use some Windows or Mac applications on Linux and they don't prefer to dual boot or maybe they have no other PC / Laptop? There may be some reason, like:

- One may need some application for his/her work that's not available on Linux, or
- When there's some custom-made software that runs on previous OS only, or
- When someone, for example, want to use Photoshop as he/she is good at it and learning to use GIMP
- Many games run well on Windows and are not available on Linux
- Also people get used-to the apps they've been using for a long time

There are so many "how to..." puzzles to solve when someone switch to a different operating system after using 'previous one' for decades. It takes some time to get used to the new system.

[Dullard du Jour]

A classic case, my partner, Windows one day, Linux the next after Microsoft wiped everything off her Windows disk. Yes, she had all her files on a Linux backup disk that was connected only when I did backups.
.

That was me, woke up and I was on Windows 7, before I went to bed that evening I was on Linux Mint with all my Win data files copied over. I decided to not dual boot so I built a new PC for the transition to Mint, its been great ever since. I realise some people need to keep a foot in both worlds, I am fortunate in that I did not need to do that. A KVM is a good option for someone that has each OS on a different box.

[caerolle]

I'm not sure any of this is relevant, but here is where I stand wrt the Linux and Windows ecosystems.

I have been in and out of Linux for a couple decades now, but always went back to Windows because the things I wanted to do were a lot easier there. I keep dabbling in Linux though, just as something interesting to do, and because I liked having more control of my OS and my operating environment; I have run everything from Openbox (probably the longest time of any) to Enlightenment to KDE. I have run a lot of distros, too from Arch (a year or so) to several Debian-based distros, including Debian. I tried some of the big non-Debian-based distros and pretty much always came back to something Debian. The exception was Solus, which I loved because of the Budgie DE.

After a few years away, I got interested in Linux again a few months ago and bought an old refurbished desktop to use for playing about with Linux. This computer is tiny compared with my desktop, which is a gaming computer, and of course far simpler. No video card, no fan, seems likely to draw far less power than my desktop.

These days most of my computer use is on the web, with some work done using desktop apps. My most-used apps are Microsoft Word, Excel and OneNote, with some PowerPoint use. I also use OneDrive to back up my files and to have access to them from any device. I also use a raw developer (photos) and an image editor, though far less than in the past. I also use a TurboTax desktop app, and use file encryption software for sensitive files like the tax info.

I love using my Linux box because it is so small and simple, and I like using Linux for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Being someone who loves playing with different distros, I tried a few and settled on Mint because it best met my criteria (I also tried LMDE, liked regular Mint better).

This may not go over well, but I pretty much use my Linux box as a Chromebox except running Firefox. I have zero user-created files on my Linux box, I do not use any Linux productivity apps whatsoever. Although they are inferior to the desktop apps, I can get by pretty well with the Microsoft Office online apps. All my user-created files are on OneDrive.

The photo processing software is more of a problem. I have used DarkTable and RawTherapee, and could get by with DarkTable, but I find the user interface lacking compared with the commercial app I use in Windows. GIMP, no, never. I could tolerate learning the workflow, but it does not enable non-destructive edits, and might never. Although a simple version of TurboTax is available online, it is not capable of doing what I need. So, at the very least I have to use Windows for those apps.

FWIW...

caerolle

[Newbie221]

I have been in and out of Linux for a couple decades now, but always went back to Windows because the things I wanted to do were a lot easier there.

Your obviously not the type of person whose confusing me !!!
Your not trying to make MS programs run on a Linux system. You’ve chosen to stick with Windows for some of your needs. I can definitely understand that.
I’m currently using OneDrive to sync my documents folder with 3 laptops.
Replacing the cloud service has been the biggest challenge I’ve encountered thus far with my switch to Linux. Finding a localized solution that works for me hasn’t been easy.


Thanks for your time
Newbie221