Battery life in Linux

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mintd
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Battery life in Linux

Post by mintd »

Hi everyone,

We've just got a new Asus laptop and would like to check how best to charge it the first few times for optimal battery life?

The user manual says to plug it in and charge for 3 hours the first time - though 3 hours will likely mean the battery continues to charge for a while after the battery has already fully charged (so overcharging?), so should that be a concern?

Any advice much appreciated, thanks! D
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AZgl1800
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by AZgl1800 »

balderdash.

plug it in and leave it plugged in.

my ASUS FX705GM has been on A/C power since I bought it 4 or 5 years ago.

ASUS laptops never have good battery life, off grid......
as for how long will it last you?
for as long as you need it, providing you never allow it to be drained completely dead.

keep it charged at 10% or more until it is fully charged again....

most, battery manufacturers state to have it at 40% for storage.
start a recharge at 25%
and disconnect it at 85-90%

balderdash again,
I leave it plugged in 24/7/265

you just reminded me, that I have a spare battery in the closet, that has never been out of the box.
need to check it out, charge it to 40% and put it back in the box.
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rickNS
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by rickNS »

You need not worry about any of it, You can not over charge it, pretty much all Li-ion battery packs have BMS "Battery Management System". Without one they would be very dangerous.
A standard Lithium ion cell has a "nominal voltage of 3.7 volts, when fully charged it will be 4.2 volts, and when discharged about 3.4 volts.
Note discharged is not "dead" for if a cell was ever to get to about 3 volts or below it would not be able to be recharged. That is why the BMS will cut power when the cells reach 3.4 volts.

As far as a lot of people saying only to charge to 85% or some other arbitrary number do not believe them it is very important to fully charge the battery at least some times, because that is when the cell "balancing" takes place. And you can read more about that if you wish, but it IS important.

I have had electric bicycles for quite a few years now, that's how I know.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by motoryzen »

I leave it plugged in 24/7/265
You need not worry about any of it, You can not over charge it, pretty much all Li-ion battery packs have BMS "Battery Management System"
Na..I wouldn't just trust that . I've seen too many cases where one leaves his or her battery in his or her laptop regardless of the generation or brand and end up degrading the memory capacity of the battery. If you're going to leave the power charging cord always plugged into the laptop and electrical wall outlet, just properly power it off, remove the battery and treat it like a Desktop and remember NOT to yank the power cord while using it.

I don't know about any of you, but I actually want my laptop batteries to last over 5+ years as I'm not in the business of having to buy new batteries sooner than that.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by AZgl1800 »

motoryzen wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:33 pm
I leave it plugged in 24/7/265
You need not worry about any of it, You can not over charge it, pretty much all Li-ion battery packs have BMS "Battery Management System"
Na..I wouldn't just trust that . I've seen too many cases where one leaves his or her battery in his or her laptop regardless of the generation or brand and end up degrading the memory capacity of the battery. If you're going to leave the power charging cord always plugged into the laptop and electrical wall outlet, just properly power it off, remove the battery and treat it like a Desktop and remember NOT to yank the power cord while using it.

I don't know about any of you, but I actually want my laptop batteries to last over 5+ years as I'm not in the business of having to buy new batteries sooner than that.
again,
I say Balderdash.....

I have 3 laptops, all of them powered up 24/7/365 and all of them have good working batteries....
the Battery Management Module takes care of the "overcharging" issues.....

the "newest to me" is a very ancient Thinkpad E550 and the battery on that thing still gives me 6 to 8 hours of "off grid" use between charges.

it was given to me recently by my son, who found it in a Corporate Trash Can....
he knows that I put Linux on anything that gets close to me,
I booted it up, it had Windows ancient, I forget now....

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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by senjoz »

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Lady Fitzgerald
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

Some laptops have an optional setting you can make in the BIOS to limit how much the battery will charge and not recharge it until the battery has discharged to a certain level to extend battery life. My laptop has that feature which I enabled and, per the manufacturer's recommendations, set to charge to a maximum level of 80% and won't recharge until the charge level drops below 40%.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by CloneWerks »

The generally accepted "best practice" is to fully charge a battery and then discharge below 15% for two or three cycles and then after that try to avoid going over 80% unless you are going to have a need for a full charge.

In reality (33 years of IT hardware support) it doesn't seem to actually make that much of a difference for most people. Either the computers Battery Management (BMS) is good, or it isn't. Acer, Lenovo, and a few others usually have excellent BMS. Dell and HP can be a little "Hit or Miss" depending on the model (HP gaming laptops, I'm looking at you). Gateway laptops are horrible and leaving them plugged in 24/7 has a high probability of causing swollen battery.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by rickNS »

motoryzen wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:33 pm
Na..I wouldn't just trust that . I've seen too many cases where one leaves his or her battery in his or her laptop regardless of the generation or brand and end up degrading the memory capacity of the battery. If you're going to leave the power charging cord always plugged into the laptop and electrical wall outlet, just properly power it off, remove the battery and treat it like a Desktop and remember NOT to yank the power cord while using it.

I don't know about any of you, but I actually want my laptop batteries to last over 5+ years as I'm not in the business of having to buy new batteries sooner than that.
Fist Li-ion batteries do not have "memory".

I'm Speaking from first hand experience, and not repeating what I "heard" or read, plastered, and repeated all over the web.

I bought a new Acer laptop late 2007, used mostly as a desktop always plugged in, I was concerned about the battery so I followed that non-sense on the internet of charging, and discharging to some 40%, and then removed the battery, stored it in a box. I repeated that process every six months, after two and a half, and no more than three years I had a paper weight. The battery had been charged no more than a dozen times, and stored "properly" ha. I bought a replacement, and with the same treatment it lasted no better.

I then moved on to thinkpads, I have 7 of them;
x200 from 2008
t420 from 2011 (have 3 of those)
x240 from 2013
t450 from 2015
t470s from 2017

Obviously the x200 being over 15 years old the battery is not very good, but will still last awhile, about an hour. One of the t420's does not hold a charge very long either, but I do not know how the previous owner used it ? The other 5 machines have excellent batteries ranging in age from 6 to 13 years old, Capacity of 66% or higher, and I do charge them to 100% every time they are plugged in. The daily driver, always plugged in, a t420 still has, according to inxi 91% capacity.
CloneWerks wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:17 am The generally accepted "best practice" is to fully charge a battery and then discharge below 15% for two or three cycles and then after that try to avoid going over 80% unless you are going to have a need for a full charge.
If one only ever charges to 80%, as is often recommended on the web, the cells never get balanced, and severely reduces the life of the pack.
https://www.batterypoweronline.com/blog ... ery-packs/
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by motoryzen »

Fist Li-ion batteries do not have "memory".
Call it whatever you want. Do whatever you want (shrugs)

Someone always wants to argue and look like the hero and look like or she knows more...until the proof shows up. Experience, not words on a sheet of paper or words on a screen, have shown me not to keep a laptop continuously plugged in and charging after it's already reached 100% battery capacity for years old end if I expect the battery to keep accepting more recharges after so many years.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by rickNS »

motoryzen wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:51 pm
Fist Li-ion batteries do not have "memory".
Call it whatever you want.
I'll call it the truth shrugs. And you can not argue that.
Someone always wants to argue and look like the hero and look like or she knows more...until the proof shows up. Experience, not words on a sheet of paper or words on a screen, have shown me not to keep a laptop continuously plugged in and charging after it's already reached 100% battery capacity for years old end if I expect the battery to keep accepting more recharges after so many years.
Well it seems to be working for @AZgl1800, and myself. Machines a decade and more old have good batteries where they "should" be dead.

It is funny how if a piece of information gets passed around enough, it becomes common knowledge, and accepted as truth, whether or not it is.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by motoryzen »

I'll call it the truth shrugs. And you can not argue that.
I can and I did..Facts don't care about anyone's feelings be it here about PC tech or Linux involvement, or politics involving one's words versus historical actions, or a human thinking he's in good enough shape to out swim a great white fully grown shark without the help of any machinery. Now just because it's been my experience of what I've already explained..DOESN'T 100% guarantee it will always be another one's experience.

We're all here to provide help and get help, if you disagree with the caution(s) I have provided that are from actual experience, that's not my problem..that's on you. I'm done with this dead end disagreement. :lol:
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by AZgl1800 »

No disagreements here, I do what I do, and don't give two hollers in hell what you or anyone else does. :D
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by mintd »

Thanks everyone for all your posts!

I'm a bit confused now as to what to do as there are quite varying views on maintaining battery life :?

I would like to ask:
With first charge up, should I charge for 3 hours (which the manual says) or just charge until it is fully charged (which is likely less than 3 hours)? Either way, would it have an impact on the battery?

Thank you, D
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by senjoz »

Charging the battery to 100% once and then charging for another three hours will not damage the battery. Perform the first charge of the battery according to the manufacturer's instructions.

To optimize battery charging later, you can set a battery charge limit on your Asus laptop using the tlp program. ​For optimal battery handling during use see link in my previous post.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by mintd »

Thanks very much senjoz.

Have seen a few battery management programs for Linux suggested such as:

https://linrunner.de/tlp/index.html (which you kindly noted)
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/10/sli ... 4-released
https://github.com/tshakalekholoane/bat

And was wondering which programs people have found to be best? Would be grateful to hear your experiences with them, thanks!
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by senjoz »

I have very good experience with tlp. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the other two programs you mentioned.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by AZgl1800 »

FWIW,

I have been using TLP for several years now.
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by mintd »

Thank you very much AZgl1800 and senjoz.

I've seen varying figures for how low to let batteries drain when optimising their life (and initially calibrating), with percentages ranging between 10-20% and would like to ask what is the best percentage?
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Re: Battery life in Linux

Post by AZgl1800 »

several years ago, say about 3 cellphones ago, I was very concerned that "over-charging" the battery would greatly reduce the Service Life of the cellphone's battery.

Research ( ala the wisdom of the Internet ) seemed to think that 85% is the cut-off point to quit charging the battery.

Experience has proved, that is all rubbish.... the cellphones have a very good Battery Charge Manager in them, and you can leave it on-charge indefinitely, without harm to the battery.


About that same point in time, I was also worried about my laptop batteries, and the Experience factor, has proven that leaving them plugged in Indefinitely does NO harm at all.

I never unplug a laptop, unless it is Powered Down for storage.
I leave it powered up, full time, and this laptop I am typing on, is going on 5 years of age now, and has been powered up, full time, except when traveling ....

I am going to unplug it right now, and show the battery life:
10 hours it states:

In Reality, it is about 4 hours once the surface charge is worn off...
Screen Brightness is the Biggest Factor in battery life,
I dim it down until I can't see the details, and then bring it up just enough to be usable, that will double the "hours of use".

Battery ASUS.jpg
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